I'm also sickened that this is featured on the site. Not because I don't think Morrissey's business practices are not a concern of the fans, I don't believe that. But because this is just a rumor, and one so serious that it's incredibly vile and mean-spirited to give it this much attention before or until it is confirmed. If it's not true, then thanks to the rumor being given so much publicity and validation by being placed here prominently and discussed there will will be people who have made up their minds that it was. Rumors can be damaging. People buy them, even if they're marked as a rumor. I don't think a Morrissey fan site should ferment damaging rumors about him, call me crazy. If it were a verified fact, then reporting it would be totally appropriate.

No, I don't think he did, but this is all old news and doesn't matter much anyhow.

I only met him (Westman) a few times so I can not vouch for how trustworthy or untrustworthy he is. Westman had worked with Morrissey since the Kill Uncle days. Take a look at the "Live in Dallas" video you'll see him standing to the side of the stage. (Tall thin guy, balding hair)

I know that Morrissey truly believes he was ripped off by Westman. He fired off some very angry faxes at several Oye Esteban crew members just after the tour ended. If I remember right, these faxes were handwritten and said, "GARY WESTMAN STOLE MY MONEY!" I know, it almost sounds laughable or even childish, but sadly it's true. It was one of those moments where you just wanted to roll your eyes and say, "Oh my god, He's crazy."

There were several key crew members that supported Gary -- or at least believed him to be an honest enough chap. Ultimately those who sided with Gary were dismissed -- dismissed is the wrong word really. The tour was already over. Those who sided with Gary were cut out of the inner circle. They were not re-hired for the 2002 tour -- although this is not to suggest that was the only reason they were not re-hired. It was, however, quite a big factor. Debbie Dannell & John Wynne are two of the people who I am speaking of.

It should also be noted that there were crew members who sided with no-one on this matter. At least one was rehired for the latest tour (temporarily at least) but others were not. So it is possible that a few years down the line maybe this wasn't such a big deal afterall.

Did Morrissey not pay his crew on this tour? I don't know. Ask Johnny Bridgwood if he's gotten paid from the Maladjusted tour yet?

The 1999 Oye Esteban tour personel got paid in Las Vegas on the last night of the 1999 tour.

One more interesting piece of tour gossip. Last week I ran into some musicians in a pub in East London. Over a pint these blokes told me that they had just met Mike Hinc (Morrissey's UK Manager) Anyhow, Morrissey is Mike's only client. Mike was chatting with these fellows about how Morrissey so honourable that he doesn't let opening bands pay to join his tour. OH REALLY?

Now David Tseng, this is the part where you're supposed to dig up that story from Feb/March 2000 where it was revealed that Sack paid $10,000 to join the Oye Esteban tour.

-Eric G. [EG]

For the last time this isnt a rumour, its a verified story, do you know the difference between rumour and fact?

As for this being the end of the site, far from it

I think it could well be the beginning

Its about time the sycophants who think this site is their property had a reality check and this is it

Morrissey isnt the whiter than white, holier than thou person they delude themselves that he is

He is a very talented musician and performer

That doesnt mean to say he doesnt screw people over for money and it isnt only band and crew he has done it to

I've verified who I am to David, if I hadnt done that to his satisfaction my posts wouldnt have made it to the board

That takes this out of rumour

Unless of course someone wants to step up and call me and the rest of the crew liars or ill wishing hoaxers

What scoops are you referring to by the way?

I know for a fact one "scoop" posted here by a band member was the biggest load of crap I have ever read having personally been present at the incident described, and was disseminated at Morrisseys behest

I am sure the board will sorely miss scoops like those

David asked a question and was given answers and responses

Knowing he was going to take flak from doing so, he took the bull by the horns

Its a shame others cant respect him for having the courage to do it

This subject has provoked some sensible debate and given an insight into touring with Morrissey

Its also give a platform to some sycophantic ostriches who need to get out more and face the real world

End of rant

I think you are getting several people mixed up here

I have not mentioned Perry at all only Charlie Brown

I have not posted anything before on this subject and have only done so in response to the request for confirmation by David Tseng

I do, however suspect that at least one other crew member is posting here and possible one of the band to (Hi guys:)) just by some of the information in the postings

As for Morrissey reading this here, he is already aware of crew feelings having had those conveyed to him by Ian Montone and others some considerable time ago

As for what have any of us done to get paid, the tour manager simply stopped responding to any requests for information 3 weeks after the tour ended, no returned calls and his mobile phone number changed

Ian Montone, Morrisseys "representative" in NY responds occasionally and simply says he is out of pocket too and is unable to assist

The tour accountants are based in London, and that is a whole different story

Money was collected on the tour in both cash and other forms of financial collateral

This was done in order to evade the Joyce writs and others

The finances were then fed to the accountants little by little, with "other" people paid directly or indirectly by the tour manager thus giving the accountants little control over all of the tour money or even giving them posession of it

Having spoken to the tour accountants to see if they could shed any light on the matter we have all been told the tour account with them is empty and no further funds are likely to be forthcoming

The tour accountants also remain unpaid in their own words

The latest information I have speaking directly to other tour crew and even band members is that they remain short by varying amounts, none of which are small or inconsequential

The sole reason for us not being paid was no funds are available, not bad for a tour that sold out everywhere is it?

Noone ever complained about my work on the tour, or, from what I know, others work. There were certainly no complaints about the bands performance

Once again I will make the point as to why I posted here, David Tseng ASKED if anyone could confirm what he had heard, I simply posted here and confirmed it, no other reason

I didnt start this thread, the simple exercise of reading back will show you that

As for trying to alienate Moz from his fans, I wont even bother gracing that with an answer

David Tseng courageously, to my mind, asked a question, I answered it, if people dont like the answers stop reading the thread

Simple isnt it?

And no I havent given up on getting paid, nor have others, and who in their right mind thinks Morrissey would pay up because of what other people think?

Especially people on here

He has shown his contempt for the judicial system by consistently evading paying judgements against him

Numerous judgements not just the one obtained by Joyce

I am aware of others taking steps to recover there money, myself and several suppliers have asked them to include the amounts owed to us in their efforts and they have agreed

The problem when similar incidents have occurred in the past is information was not passed around so people subsequently working for him didnt know
what had transpired

Now EVERYONE in the industry knows, and that has nothing to do with this board

Morrissey will find it hard to find crew, suppliers and promoters especially in the UK

People are fed up with Joyce hitting them with court orders and process servers turning up as a result of Morrisseys singular failure to pay his debts, even though he has the money

People cant be bothered with all the hassle of shuffling money around or having to pay him up front, getting hit by process servers et al for the paltry amount of money they make as a result

Contrary to popular belief the artist DOES get

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