I still dont understand why Mike Joyce thinks he should get any money from a creative process he wasnt involved in (writing the songs being an example)how is it fair that he is still chasing the £1 million AND gets the royalties from sales.British justice,you cant beat it.

so Mike you recieved Morrissey's share "in the past"
What changed?

what i find even more interesting than this battle of the words, is the fact that mike actually comes on this site and lurks around!

joyce leave morrissey alone

I can just imagine Mike now, sat hunched over his computer and furiously pressing F5 on Solo.

I love this website, but I'm dismayed that this argument is going on in public. There must have been a more diplomatic way than tit-for-tat I said this you said that. Very sad.

Peter

Certainly at least ONE piece of defamation towards Mike Joyce from the hilariously unproffesional, Merck.

Mike, take him to the bloody cleaners!

And, as much as I adore Morrissey's music, I hope you get the money you're owed.

Ignore the muppets on here - many are social misfits(FACT).

...that Mike Joyce got (gets?) Morrissey's share of The Smith's royalties! What has Mike Joyce done on his own? Apparently, Joyce's full-time job is now squeezing money out of Morrissey. If he's such a great musician, then why doesn't he just go out there and make some great music? Then it wouldn't be his top priority to rely on Morrissey for money. He's not your daddy, Mike.

Mike Joyce could have been Joe Bloggs. Anyone could have done what he did. He was essentially a session drummer - deflate that ego you pathetic numbskull.

# I don't owe you anything, but you owe me something - repay me now #

Mike, what exactly did you try to infer by this remark?

"Maybe some of the people who visit this site could ask Morrissey through their contacts just WHO receives ALL Smiths royalties now...Mmm?"

Wasn't it to try to suggest that Morrissey was receiving all the royalties and by implication taking money off Johnny and Andy?

You've lost all credibility with your sly and dishonest statement. The fact that you haven't been able to refute anything Merck says tells us all we need to know.

Doesn`t it seem unfair that Mike gets Morrissey`s share of the royalties?Even if it was in the past.The facts are that Morrissey and Marr wrote those songs therefore the should get the majority of those royalties.

If you've been so honest and it's just Morrissey who's being unreasonable why is it that Johnny Marr hates your guts too? And why is it that when Andy Rourke had to choose between the two of you he chose Johnny even though he hadn't seen him for years and the two of you had been as thick as thieves in the years before. You don't seem to inspire much loyalty.

How much was the original ruling - what amount did the court say Morrissey owed you?

How much have you taken from Morrissey's Smiths royalties to date - have you taken any other of his money aswell - what is the total you have recieived?

Will this process ever end - if so when?

Looking back on those years do you think your input to The Smiths - (creativly and promotionally) was equal to the input of Morrissey and Marr?

I would be intersted to hear your answers to these question - it would certainly make the picture alot clearer - Thanks

Smiler

You've currently procured a situation in which I no longer wish to see the Smiths reunite, merely because if they were to it would clearly be with a gun to Morrissey's (and perhaps the others') head(s). You have ruined all hope for me in an enjoyable Smiths reunion. I do not understand how you feel you should receive someone else's share for something. You were not born Morrissey. You do not deserve Morrissey's share in the Smiths. In my personal opinion you do not even deserve to SAY you were in the Smiths, but I digress...
Simply put, leave Morrissey and Morrissey-Solo.com alone.

Well, if we all follow Morrissey's advice, and not buy any Smiths albums from now on, Mike Joyce should be running out of money soon.

I have never hated an artist more in my life. How dishonest and bitter, and desperate of Joyce.... but alas, fuck the money, Morrissey is a bigger person, and he has greater attributes to live this life with a straight face.

STFU please.
you are Persona Non Grata on this site, I suggest you take a hint and go fuck yourself with something hard.

Sorry to add fuel on the fire, but didn't the judge say that Morrissey had kept something like 500 000 pounds from the Smiths just for himself?Is that an honest behaviour? (I like mozza, but I think that when it is about money, he can become a big cow sometimes.).
(I am not Mike Joyce).

Joyce is little more than a schoolboy bully. We all have people in life who hold some strange power over us, and this is the case with Joyce and Morrissey. Morrissey isn`t as strong as many of us would like to believe. It`s clear to any sensible child, who the antagonist is here. Morrissey can barely bring himself to speak of Joyce - it hurts him so much, yet Joyce has picked him apart in a cool, calm and collected fashion. He still talks in glowing terms about Morrissey in interviews, Morrissey`s pain means nothing to him, and obviously hasn`t touched his conscience if he can still talk of him like an old friend. (how very magnanimous of him),He views Morrissey as some sort of Samson to be shawn and fettered. He knows exactly what he`s doing. Pure evil. And we`ve all seen plenty of miscarriages of justice to ever doubt that the law is an ass. Yamaha

Listen,

A court decided that you needed more monies than you had signed for.
Out of any courtroom scenario any layman would say how blessed you were to have the luck to 'know' marr at the time the songs were crafted.
you are a PARASITE who believes that court room judgements mean you have a moral claim to something that is not yours.
I beleive you lack anything that would be seen as good.
Ask yourself the question @what have i done and earned since marr walked out that has not been linked to the mozz / marr partnership'

jack shit if you did not know

morrissey is rich anyway

Is Morrissey-solo.com going to become a battleground for back and fourth arguments like this?

If so, I like it. More please.

and the northern leeches go on removing removing removing

Maybe Mr. Joyce could confirm whether all of this is true?

http://true-to-you.net/morrissey_news_051130_01

"30 November 2005

Statement from Morrissey:

The latest statements from M Joyce on a BBC 6 radio interview as faithfully reported on the MorrisseySoLow site have been brought to my attention and I feel I should make this reply as an attempt to put the matter straight.

1. From '83 to '87 M Joyce happily and willingly received 10% of Smiths recording royalties.

2. In '89, as is documented, Joyce sued Morrissey & Marr for 25% of Smiths recording royalties.

3. In '96, Joyce took his claim to court - and on the basis of the 1890 Partnership Act the judge awarded Joyce 25%.

4. In '97, M Joyce was paid 215 thousand pounds from me, and 215 thousand pounds from Johnny Marr.

5. In '99, Joyce appeared on British television and made the statement: "There was no contract saying we were gonna get 25%."

6. In 2001, as a final payment of back royalties, Johnny Marr paid Joyce 260 thousand pounds, plus "costs." At this time I was in the US and was not served with court proceedings, so Joyce obtained a Default Judgment. He then put forward a claim from me for 688 thousand pounds - well above and beyond the amount Johnny Marr was ordered to pay. In my absence, the figure was not contested.

7. Since 2001, and because of the Default Judgment against me, Joyce has taken out Third Party Orders against the following societies: my personal bank account in England, Smiths royalties from Warner Music, my personal PRS royalties, my personal PPL royalties, and he has attempted to seize UK concert fees from venue to venue. This money, to date, totals 700 thousand pounds. This figure is in addition to the figures mentioned above.

8. By grabbing the full total of Smiths royalties from Warner Music (and this means that when the public buy a Smiths CD in the UK, the royalties go to Joyce, and have done so since 2001) Joyce has knowingly deprived Andy Rourke of his 10% Smiths royalties, and has deprived producers John Porter, Stephen Street, Grant Showbiz and Steve Lillywhite (for "Ask") of their entitlements. Joyce did not declare to the courts that others - namely, the above - were also beneficiaries to the Warner Music royalties.

9. In 2001, Joyce attempted to seize both my mother's house and my sister's house by claiming that I had taken my assets out of the UK; he made this claim even though he had direct access to all of the above – which are in the UK. Joyce eventually dropped both of these claims due to lack of evidence, and he refused to pay the 150 thousand pounds that it had cost me to defend his groundless claims. Joyce also dropped his claim as co-composer with Johnny M on Smiths compositions, and Joyce also dropped his claim for Producer royalties on Smiths recordings, and Joyce also dropped his claim for a share of Artwork payments given to me for providing Smiths record sleeves. There were, in fact, no payments to me for Smiths Artwork. Joyce made a further claim for 25% of all Smiths t-shirts sold during the '83 to '87 period, even though there was no evidence that any royalty for t-shirts had been received by either myself or Johnny Marr.

10. In legal fees alone, Joyce has cost me 600 thousand pounds - this is quite apart from any payments made to him, and is quite apart from any money seized by him. In total, Joyce has cost me 1 million, 515 thousand pounds. This is an approximate figure - it could even be higher.

11. The Joyce action is continuous. Because of his Default Judgment he continues to take my royalties, and the royalties of others mentioned above, from Warner Music - consequently I have not received record royalties since 2001.

12. Since 2001, the money claimed by Joyce is charged, to me, at 100 pounds a day in interest.

13. During the Smiths' lifetime, when Joyce willingly took a 10% royalty, he did not contribute towards any expenses of any kind, did not take on any Partnership duties or responsibi

Read the rest of this comment...

you or any other musician and it is the same beautiful songs of morrissey - marr .

what have you ever made ?

you only live of morrissey .

he is working so much and you get money sat in his house

You were the fourth Smith member so you deserve 25%.
I don't understand Morrissey he feels like he is the queen of england and deserves all.

That's what's behind Mike Joyce and before him too, if he continues to cling gloatingly to the role of thorn in his side *my precious*. The problem is; the impression he's giving, is that he's enjoying this like a purpose, an identity so that even if a reasonable meeting-in-the-middle type of offer was put forward, he might feel like he doesn't exist anymore if he agreed.

Remember the love in The Smiths; value peace of mind and grant it to others, and take a step forward to shake hands on a deal. It's too sad, too depraved, otherwise, when things don't have to be like this.

Still, Morrissey's done great standing his ground all this time so perhaps it's something he accepts as one of those unsavoury inconveniences in life in spite of which lots of us prevail regardless.

Also I cannot recall ever seeing the main page being this busy and dramatic on a weekend!

You Are owed a court decided amount of Money and you should get it, not a penny more not a penny less. You do what ever you have to do legally to make that happen. There is not a sane human being on this planet who would not do otherwise, including Merck and Steve.

I sense Merck is burying his nose up Steves ass to get back in with him because he is vapid without him. So accosting his "thorn" with feeble "threats" is a calculated tactic to win over the precocious Steve-

Keep your chin up.

I have met Mike on a couple of occasions, I didn't get the impression he hates Morrissey, nor the impression it's his full time job squeezing money out of him.
At the end of the day, Mike was 1/4 of a four piece band, not a session musician, end of. Granted, he didn't write any of the songs but he is most certainly entitled to being paid for playing drums on the records and at gigs, just as much as Andy and Johnny. He was on the stage performing, in the studio recording and putting just as much effort in (probably more) as Morrissey did.
Don't get me wrong, I love Morrissey and his music but the heart of the matter is Mike was not paid for a job he did.

You deserve NADA, Mike Joyce. You are a mere cockroach that Moz can flatten with well heeled attorneys. You deserve NOTHING, you leech!

A footnote in the Smiths legacy, and one of interest to music journalists the World over, is being played out 'live' on Morrissey Solo. What's even more remarkable is that it isn't that interesting.

If Mike Joyce has received Morrissey's share then he's £1m up at least so surely that makes the... oh HANG ON. Does that mean Morrissey's received zero Smiths royalties since the court case?

Could someone legal stand up?

with no mike (and andy) there would not have been the smiths we loved therefore no morrissey.

give him what he earned.

Whatever you think about Mike Joyce, the contract, the music, the song-writing partnership, who deserves what is not a matter of opinion.

If the court said Moz owes Joyce money, he owes him the money. That is all that matters.

they certainly won't make any reunion at all. to many hurt and anger inside. and the debate wont end till they pass away, leaving a tragic history about how 25 percent won't make your life easy.

As I suggested in the previous thread regarding this matter, those who were sucking up to Morrissey's henchman without possessing all of the information are now looking like fools.

So, who here wants to buy a bridge?

It's time to grow up and be a big person. Take the emotion out of it (if you can). ANY one of you would be doing the same thing if it happened to you in your line of work. NOT GETTING PAID FOR SOMETHING YOU SHOULD HAVE.

I'll tell you who is the grown up in all this. Marr.
Made a mistake. Paid the man what he was owed and has moved on.

Again, we're "fan"atics. Grow up. Take the emotion out of it and you realize who is the squirrel hording all the nuts.

Mike and Andy did contribute their parts as part of the Smiths. Who creates the drum parts? There are nuances to how drum parts are played, just as with any other instrument. And please, I bet someone will reply how easy it is to just a beat a drum.

Mr. Joyce should just count his blessings that he finds himself in dear old Blighty, safely at a distance from Merck Mercuriadis who despite his best efforts will not become the best friend on the payroll. Sadly, these days he is very much off of the payroll, and finding it harder and harder to afford those alcoholic afternoons along Sunset Boulevard with the Jakes of the world, united in West Hollywood. Fewer and fewer are taking the walk of shame down Sweetzer Avenue, following Merck back to the old house where Morrissey would perform his headmaster ritual on Merck's arse'n'all. Yes, the frequency of skin storms is dying down and now Merck must channel his rage by some other means. As long as he has an outlet here, his rage will flow like a river the color of lead.

Best wishes,
MerckFromScatter

This web site attracts people who celebrity-worship Morrissey (nowadays on this site, it seems that is more important than the music), so you're gonna get a lot of abuse here just because you're in a dispute with the Morrissey. Truth, justice, reality, etc, matter little. When Morrissey makes silly remarks that he thinks you're "living beyond your means," morons on this site actually believe that is a good argument for Morrissey not paying you the money he owes you! The courts, of course, don't buy that sort of B.S.

Know some of us understand you're just trying to get the money that is owed to you. I'd support anyone in that, but especially someone who was the drummer on all those great Smiths records.

F**k off Joyce, you talentless, blood-sucking c**t.

Joyce's response was posted within 60 minutes of Merck's post ...?

If your telling me that Morrissey and Marr said to mike " Now , I want you to bang that drum , then that one , then this metal thing a few times and bang the first one".....then you are very naive.

Of course Mike Joyce had a say in the rythmn section and so did Andy.

I would be racked off if I had put in 5 years of hard graft to discover your 'mates' had done you over a barrell.

He is not owed the money because he accepted the 10 per cent share at the time, in both word and deed. Review of the evidence presented at the trial is sufficient to confirm this. The judge erred in his judgement, probably because the evidence wasn't 100% conclusive and the courts will look to protect the 'little guy' when faced with a case like this (yes, Moz and Marr should have got this in writing).

Anyone who thinks Moz and Marr wouldn't have fired Joyce back in 83 or whatever, had he insisted on his 25% back then, is on crack, basically.

be nice to see Moz's reactions to all this again. i wonder if Johnny might stick his oar in too? fucking excellent! I met mike a few years back and thought he was a nice bloke but all I think of now is this bullshit when I think of him. Mike, you've not only let your greed and ego ruin the Smiths' legacy, you've fucking ruined your own, mate. What a bastardised wreck you've made of the greatest band of all time.

Leave Moz alone. You have been paid enough now. What makes you think you deserve to be a millionaire? The Smiths sold records and sold out gigs because of the talent of Morrissey & Marr. You were part of the band but not a creative genius. Christ I bet there's thousands of people out there who would have done your job for nowt!

Marr should receive 40%
Morrissey should receive 30%
Rourke should receive 15%
Joyce should receive 15%

I worship the ground on which Morrissey walks, but the truth is that Johnny was the driving force behind The Smiths and he and Morrissey fed off one another's genius. Marr worked himself into the ground for that band and the pressure drove him to alcoholism; he deserves the most money as a result, because he was manager as well as guitarist and songwriter. Morrissey is second in line, as the band wouldn't have existed without him and the songs are his creative, intellectual property.
The ruling that decreed each member should receive an equal share is like giving the illustrator of a book, or the book jacket designer the same amount of money as the author, or allowing the set designer of a film to take home as much as the film's star or it's director.
In other words, people came to see The Smiths and bought their albums because of Morrissey and Marr. To give Rourke and Joyce the same amount of money for their contribution (and there's no doubting they were brilliant musicians and the best men for the job) is basically saying that they did the same amount of work.

However, life's not fair and people are, by nature, avaricious. Also, it seems, friendship crumbles when it comes to money. I'm sure most of you on here would agree that if a good mate painted a fantastic piece of art work and you added the finishing brush strokes that made that art work amazing in the eyes of the establishment, you wouldn't expect the same plaudits and financial gain as your friend. After all, it is their work, you were just the finishing touch and should be happy to be known as such.

If people who desire fame and fortune spent less time chasing after what wasn't rightfully theirs and more time putting in the work to acheive something spectacular on their own merits, then the world would probably be highly advanced in all scientific and creative fields by now.
Whatever the law ruled in the case of The Smiths is really irrelevant when it comes to a moral stance over people's intellectual property.

Now people can come to Morrissey's fansite and witness his ex(?)manager and his his ex-drummer exchange charges. I can only imagine that Morrissey is reading this, probably with more sadness than glee (I would hope).

The only person who benefits from this fiasco is Mike Joyce.

It's obvious that Morrissey has been so upset by the whole drawn-out mess that he's squandered too much of his precious time and energy on songs about court cases and judges which relatively few people truly want to hear.

This will never end, and it will be a drain on the reputation of a great band, the talent of a great artist, and the patience of a great many admirers of both.

Me too - I feel the need to say something meaningful on this topic.

Erm ... some mouths are bigger than others.

Ah. Failed. Again.

He's filthy rich. This vendetta Morrissey has against Mike Joyce comes across as capitalist.

Why would he bother? He's bloody rich anyway! Stupid and frustrated. I love his music but he should forgive and forget.

He was interviewed by Sky News just a year ago and you can watch it on YouTube - http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=1i1Cg5hp3B8&NR=1

is the root of all evil today