Who really cares is Morrissey is a fudge packer Isn't the whole point is "gay" is just a generalization, a human construct to place sexual attraction into a convenient labelled box? Sexuality is not defineable. In labelling and generalizing - homophobic attitudes are born, arent they?

Morrissey looks better at 47 than Boy George, George Michael, Joe Dallesandro, Andy Warhol, Oscar Wilde, and Neil Tennant... Coincidence?

I think Little Joe isn't gay, anyway--his wiki says he's been "married three times and has two sons," and you'd think someone in the Warhol crowd and a one-time hustler would be out at this point in his life.

As a football fan I have never heard of this card. C'MON People Let's get over this and CELEBRATE!

do we really need confirmation that Morrissey is gay? I mean, even a blind man can see that he's a swish.
c'mon people.

Doesn't matter what word you use, some people will always be bigotted.

Fortunately that number is decreasing.

We should not accept people using the word "tolerant". We are tolerant of things we find irritating or loathsome.

We should embrace diversity.

We should be intolerant of people who proclaim tolerance.

Embrace one another.

And that includes people who don't wish to profess being gay.

"...if men who are attracted to men avoid the word 'gay' because of the stigma and stereotypes it connotes, then the stigma and stereotypes will never be eradicated."

That sentiment sounds as intolerant as the most bigoted homophobe's anti-sodomite speech. If a large number of people who have homosexual relationships define themselves (or decline to define themselves) rather than giving in to pressure to accept agenda-driven stereotypes or labels, those prejudices will fade and society will see the human behind the queer. Morrissey's position is eminently reasonable whether he's "gay" or "straight" or, as most people are, somewhere in between.

"The American passion for categorizing has now managed to create to nonexistent categories - gay and straight. Either you are one or you are the other. But since everyone is a mixture of inclinations, the categories keep breaking down, the irrational takes over." -Gore Vidal

It's obvious (to me) that he understands that the perfect rock and roll icon less charm and charisma if he says too much.
That's why he's not saying much about it. Rock and roll in the end is basically about that... rocking and rolling...

if he is gay or not, i love his music the way it is.

thanks niggas.

Well as a gay man myself I find Morrisseys sexuality intriguing and baffling . When I fell out of the closet some years ago I listened to his lyrics through a different pair of ears than when in my confused youth. I have grown up with Morrissey and will probably grow older with him too. I do not need to know and I think the mystique adds to the enjoyment because anyone can take what they want from his muisc .Morrissey refuses to be dragged into debate about it and really it isnt anyones business but his. Morrissey has a massive gay and lesbian following who love his ambiguity and respect his privacy . Viva Morrissey

What I liked about Locksley Hall's article was that he included alot of viewpoints from those who like to sit and debate the issue (or stand, whatever the preference.)

All I know is that his issue has been debated to death on this site, and folks here have pretty much expressed the same viewpoints mentioned in the article, including the viewpoint that his sexual preference doesn't matter to fans of his music, nor is it anyone's business to know.

I feel a lingering, persistent message in almost each of Morrissey's songs about how cruel it can get when a lover is left out, cast aside because of an "unconventional love". Sometime yesterday, I heard in one of those B-side tracks that are now available in released singles in UK, that "I am waiting for you near a train station". Way back in the nineties, with a video for the song Dagenham Dave, there were the 3 stickies a man was putting on, one of them containing "I love Moz". In "The Importance of being Morrissey" (part 2, I guess, on youtube.com), though, Moz is enjoying himself at a strip joint, more precisely a girl. One statement that stuck to me, and that could justify this appearant "contradiction", is the one in which Morrissey claims that sexual labels "confuse and hurt people". The reason behind another claim of his, that he is "the profet for the fourth sex" seems an intention of his to play with the other three - gay, straight, bisexual - by "creating" a fourth one, "undefined". It's a way of saying: create as many names as you want, it won't do away with the task of making humans posses a better understanding of themselves by the use of sexual terminologies. Eroticism, for Morissey, seems to be a wish of his to become mysterious and simple: "I can get incredibly erotic about popping plastic bubbles (or something like it)", or "messing around in front of the camera and pulling faces".

There is no need to give labels, not to him. His work embrace the love and hate without a gender (and if it have a gender it doesn't matter), that's wonderful and that's one of the reasons why a lot of people feels touched by his words.
But we just wanna see the man happy, please, don't bother him, because maybe this is true: he will live his life as He will undoubtely die alone...or maybe no?

if you are a fan you should understand this by now...

How come nobody has ever said "Hey Moz, what's with the overwhelming use of gay icons in your work?"

or
"Hey Moz, how do you feel about the fact that most individuals label you as gay, despite your avoidance of the label?"

just wondering. If anybody has an interview that addresses these questions (especially the second) I'd love to hear it/see it.

 

"Richard Smith, of the UK magazine Gay Time, has repeatedly admonished Morrissey that he has a responsibility to his gay fans to come out if he is gay."

Whaaat?! I'm sorry, did I read that right?

So if he's straight does he have the resposibility to let his straight fans know?

Yes, I'll admit I love debating whether he's gay or not (and I change my mind every day over this), but it's not like the fans own his soul! He doesn't HAVE to tell us.

Gay or straight, I still love him. Seeing as I'll never meet him OR be in with a chance of marrying him anyway, it makes no difference to me.

And you may argue that he should tell his gay fans to make them feel less isolated, but I don't think that's necessary nowadays. It is becoming increasingly accepted to be gay- in fact, I've thought that teenagers nowadays go through a stage of seeing it as 'cool' to claim to be gay/bi. And people know that it's un-PC to criticise homosexuality. Obviously I associate with certain circles, but from what I've heard from everyone I know and the media, I VERY rarely hear criticisms of homosexuality. No doubt someone somewhere disagrees with this, but this is what I have experienced.

The whole point of Morrissey's sexuality is that he doesn't NEED to specify. He just is what he is. No labels and all that. Which I very much admire. :-)

I think the cover for the Smiths' debut album is sheer genius... but you can't arrive at any conclusions when it comes to Warhol and his crowd.

I would love to ask Morrissey why Joe Dallesandro was chosen (in that infamous scene) as a cover star, but I think that "scene" is highly symbolic for the entire album.

What do you think?

I probably will anger many, but I think most of Warhol's crowd were very pathetic people- perhaps people filled with a lot of self-hatred. I'm not sure. Warhol's films are classics- but was Warhol trying to glamorize the low-life? I am not sure.

The only exception might be Nico. I could write an entire book about Nico- but she also was caught up in Warhol's crowd.

"Little Joe" doesn't do much these days- but you can't read too much into Morrissey's use of cover art.

Always,
Ken

Regarding the Oscar Wilde admiration, you don't have to be gay to like his work. Davey Havok of AFI is a follower himself, and to my knowledge he's not gay. I enjoy David Bowie, Morrissey, and other flamboyant rock stars, and I'm straight. You just can't make generalizations about a personal preference, and everyone has their own reasons for who they want to fuck.

For Morrissey, one just has to pay close attention. Look at the clothes he wears (especially during the Viva Hate/Your Arsenal era, and just watch the video for "November Spawned a Monster"!), his stage presence, his choice of props, his lyrics, his dancing, his backing band of oiled-up rockabillies, his album sleeves, and his whole avoidance of the issue. He's gay, and so what? If he doesn't want to talk about it, straight people shouldn't point and laugh, and gay people shouldn't feel betrayed. It's really none of our business (although, admittedly, his whole persona is all about making it our business). Maybe he doesn't want to kiss and tell, or maybe he knows that once he officially outs himself, the whole mystery of his career is over, and he no longer sells records!

He's gay. And why does it matter at all?

SHITE... is what this is...

Morrissey danced around NOTHING!!

Moz was after a woman for 6 long years...Doesn't sound like a gay man to me! What gay man tries to get a woman for 6 years?

People want to go on about sexuality but the fact is that noone is exclusively totally one thing unless we live in controlled environment. I'm sorry but I believe most people are afraid to express themselves openly and honestly about their own sexuality. That is everyone's given right. Religion hinders, and preconceived ideas from our upbringing but then on the other hand there are people who want to shove their sexuality in everyone's face which is pretty damn annoying....as far as Morrissey goes, he's the way he is and I don't think any of us would want him to pretend to be otherwise. As far as who or what sex he chooses to make love with goes is his business entirely.

There was an article about this on a gay-news-and-porn site (god I love the web!) a week or two ago, and I posted a comment there. Here's a pasted copy, since I'm too damn lazy to type it again:

Morrissey is a supreme example of a sexual philosophy which I have accepted and rejected to various degrees throughout my life, namely that sexuality is far more fluid and opaque than simple prefixes can convey. He is his own man, and yes, it is clear from his art that he fancies certain other men. But the sheer basis of queerness is a rejection of labels and polarity between man/woman, gay/straight. To buy into these words is to be simply gay. To transcend them is to be queer. So in this sense, yes, he’s very queer. Does he love men exclusively? Women sometimes? Who cares? Are his music and wordplay endlessly compelling? Yes. Is he possibly the finest lyricist of this, or any, generation? Absolutely. Wilde smiles on this man, reluctant kegs and all.

...I wouldn't be a fan.

Why are some gay people obsessed with being gay. They surrender their entire existance to it.

I'm gay- but I view myself as a human being first and foremost.

Morrissey represents the complexities of sexuality. Another reason to love him!

Just have to say that I have worked in gay clubs throughout Manchester, and I have to say that even the lowliest boy from Stretford would have sorted those eyebrows out!!!

what difference does it make if he is gay, not gay or both depending on the mood?
It is not really relevant in relation for what he does and all this talking about his likes and dislikes in his sexual life creates and enforces the aurea of mistery around him that is part of the charatcter he is playing .

Land of the Free, Home of the Brave, the Congress has just finished "debating" an amendment that would outlaw gay marriage AND civil unions, enshrining bigotry and hatred in the Constitution. A majority of Americans are against gay marriage, and anti-marriage initiatives on state ballots ensure a high voter turnout. The Religious Right knows that it is a winning issue at the polls. Hatred of homosexuals is the single most important political motivator in America today. It is the issue that keeps the haters in power.

For all the progress being made in the media, for all the "Queer Eyes" and "Brokebacks" and "Will and Graces" (ugh!) the cold, hard reality is that most straight folks are afraid of queer folks.

Luckily, this seems to be generational, and the younger you are, the more tolerant you are. Why? Because cultural progress will keep moving foward, no matter what the haters do.

Morrissey is certainly a part of that progress. He has done so much for tolerance by presenting a sensuality and a sexuality that was overwhelming, compelling, ambiguous and acceptable. Had he yelled "I'm gay, love me!" would The Smiths appeal really have been so universal? Mozzer's persona went beyond that, and it still does. If he feels like coming out now, fine. If he maintains his ambiguity, that's fine too. All those who think he is somehow harming the gay community are missing the point, in my humble opinion. Morrissey was (and is) one of those generational icons who pushed us all one step closer to tolerance, and dealt the haters a slap in the face.

Rant over.

If gay activists are annoyed with Morrissey, well he's just answered their complaints hasn't he?

If You Don't Like Me, Don't Look At Me

Indeed.

I used to believe that perhaps Morrissey really was confused. Maybe he just didn't know what he was. I really do believe now that he is gay. Actually, I've believed it for a long time. I know that a lot of his songs are fairly sexually ambiguous, but songs like Dear God Please Help Me leave very little to the imagination, imho! It really doesn't matter AT ALL, but it's still interesting to talk about, I think.

And the point of this on the news board is????

inlovewithmyass.

If Morrissey had only used the 'Flesh' image to represent The Smiths' art, there would be room to wonder his 'preference'. HE DIDN'T! Moz, aside from personally choosing all images for Smiths records and 12"s, used MANY openly gay artists to represent The Smiths! Warhol, Capote, Candy, Beaton, Cocteau, ect! What 'straight' band does that?! There is no argument what the Smiths are about! When a band uses the image of a sexy nude man (HIG) to represnt who they are, for their FIRST image to the world, what is there to wonder about? Google Jim French and see what happens! Watch the movie in the GIAC video: it's about a woman who marries a gay man! Pull out your Peepholisms and start counting! He practically wrote it on his forehead. God bless him.

"If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them." (Leviticus 20:13)

Hahahahahaha.

Christians are funny.

would you like him better if he was gay? would you like him less if he was straight?

so what difference does it make?

none - so go - your prejudice won't keep you warm tonight.

saenz
the mozkateer
www.myspace.com/saenz01
www.myspace.com/saenz02
www.myspace.com/saenz03
www.myspace.com/saenz04
www.myspace.com/chuckamuck

Ok, he thinks it's Morrissey's "responsibility" to his fans to admit he is gay? Responsibility my arse. Who makes these rules what one's responsibilities are? I really really wish that people weren't quite as narrow-minded as Richard Smith. I bet Smith is a militant gay-activist in kylie-hotpants and a crop top. For fuck's sake, people - and I mean anybody/anyone - have no obligations to talk about any matters of their private lives, sexual orientations, etc, if they choose not to.
I find Richard Smith's views patronising, childish and simply just stupid.
But what else would you expect from a Gay times editor? Self self self, me me me - and therefore everyone else needs to be the same. Most gay men are as stupid as "My Little Ponies".

I'm straight and I don't give a shit what he is. You should like someone for being a human being or for what they do/are all about, not their sexuality. In the scheme of things, that's such a small factor anyhow.

Leave it, my friends.
And listen if you still can.
"Oh, I don't want to be judged
I would sooner be loved
I would sooner be
just blindly loved..."

"...such as Oscar Wilde and James Dean" James Dean was gay? I never heard that before.

...but an homosexual act.

Who said this? I think it was Freud.
Anyway, who gives a fuck about Morrissey's fucks? By the way, I think he's extremely gay, but celibate. Or maybe he just lost his gay virginity last year ir Rome. How sweet.

I have nothing better to do, so I thought of "pasting" here an interesting excerpt of a biographer's account on his friend's life, a poet called Verlaine, whom some of you of many of you may have heard of:

"Such confusion cannot withstand analysis, although personal virtues have nothing in common with poetical talents. The misdeeds of a man of genius ought not to prejudice us; even his crimes should not be taken into account when his work only is in question. A literary critic is not a criminal jury. What matters an error of conduct (sic) on the part of the artist to the egotistical public who delight in his masterpiece? They suffer no inconvenience, have incurred no injury, be he ever so debauched, violent,covetous or dishonest. The artist must be jugded by his work alone, quite apart from responsabilities as a man. If he sets an examples of all the domestic virtues, do the public obtain any advantage? Should he not, in the interests of humanity, set himself apart from common morality, if by so doing his brain is stimulated, rather than leave behind him the best of reputations and the worst of literature. He may have committed all the sins in the decalogue, and yet have made both his own and the generations which follow him heirs of a marvelous and immortal kingdom. And it is well. Around him the shadow may lie deep, but he has illuminated the world. For mankind as a whole this is a clear gain. (...) Virtue may or may not be allied with genius. (...) It is well known to all he (Verlaine) consorted with shameless highawaymen; that he swindled trusting inkeepers; that even to theft by violence he was no stranger."

Sorry for the obviously conservative although sympathetic tone Verlaine's friend wrote this in. The "deviations" he was alluding to are obviously not so bleakly looked upon in our days. But...Hmmmmm, though...the themes (found in "the king of the vagabonds'life") in this excerpt curiously match the ones in Ringleader of the Tormentors. This excerpt was written in 1909...

"I know the story is ooold, but..."

I have never seen a keener, window cleaner.

"...But Jesus made me, so Jesus save me from pity, sympathy And people discussing me" A frame of useless limbs What can make GOOD All the BAD that's been done?"

The only obligation anyone has is to be true to themself.
Submitting to rules, morals, expectations others want to impose is a denial of self.
This applies to all aspects of life, not only sexuality.

In a cruel and oppressive world I understand why people find comfort in identifying with something or someone. whether that be politics, religion, sexual identity, football, hero-worship.....

So I try to accept people as I find them...though often I fail.
I refuse to be defined by anyone's opinion or prejudice..
I reject the notion of "romantic" love as a lie..
I won't say "I love You" just because someone wants me to..

If you accept and love yourself as you are then definitions and labels are not so important or relevent..

You are. That is enough..

I am Sinistra 21

As Morrissey said when asked if he had any plans to come out, "come out as what?" Clearly he doesn't want to label himself (as anything- be it gay/straight/bi/whatever), so what's the big deal? At least he can't be accused of lying. Maybe his sexuality is just ambivalent, maybe he does fall in to a particular 'category' but doesn't want to share it with the rest of the world. If he was sharing all of the intimate details of his love life with Hello magazine he wouldn't be the Morrissey we all love.

His refusal to "come out" can be seen to be a statement against prejudice/ homophobia, by effectively saying 'it doesn't matter what my sexual orientation is' to everyone apart from himself and his partner (if he chooses to have one of course).

It doesn't make any difference to me what his sexual preferences are (unless he suddenly declares an interest in ladies matching my description ;-)), I just hope he's happy. Just because he's famous doesn't give everyone ownership of details of his private life.

I don't think I've ever seen so much bullshit talked to avoid realising and accepting that Morrissey is gay.