If they ever do a reunion, we have to kidnap Morrissey, for his own good. Only mental illness can bring them together.

will be included in the upcoming Smiths boxset.

as long as they're of a sufficient quality. I'd love to hear a less polished, longer "queen is dead" perhaps somewhere between the studio version and the full-on punk version from "rank."

There have got to me more versions of the earlier stuff too - Handsome Devil, stuff of MIM and maybe How Soon Is Now alternative versions plus any lost songs!!

broken

This subject became water torture in 1992. Tedious, hollow and ill-conceived. Anyone still prepared to comment should make a b-line for the nearest off-licence and opt for a more vimful passtime. Life really IS too short..

“But Andy and I go way back before the Smiths. Our friendship was bigger than that.”

this makes no sense to me. if iwere Marr id be more pissed off with Rourke than Joyce primarily for the fact that they longtime and supposedly close mates prior to the court case fallout. id be right fookin pissed with a friend if he hauled me and our friendship into the High Court- and over fookin money!

Joyce id let off easier simply cos id hav less expectations for the guy whos juste the drummer relative to my close friend. ihav no idea how Rourke gets off so scott free in this. even Moz focuses all his venom on Joyce and virtually lets Rourke go with a free pass. they both deserve shit.

that Moz would join Rourke and Marr on stage simply to see Joyce "sit it out"; not be able to play with them. I mean, if Marr insists Joyce isn't drumming and Moz gets wind of that.. The passive aggressive qualities alone to that scenario are worth joining in for a song or two. That's what Morrissey lives for, right? Inflicting misery on others?

“I always think I’ll probably know what they’ll sound like — and when I get around to hearing them, I’m usually right.”

Let's examine this sentence for a minute or two.

"I always think I’ll probably know what they’ll sound like"

So he imagines what the album sounds like. Fair enough.

"and when I get around to hearing them, I’m usually right.”

With a wry smile, he congratulates himself on his cleverness after being proved "right".

How does he know he's right? Well, at some point he hears the album and finds it to be much as he imagined.
The clue is here: "when I get around to hearing them"

Yet he said that he's never listened to a Morrissey album didn't he?

Is he lying?
Either way, he sounds bitter to me, which is a shame.

Johnny Healers songs would sound like; half baked, third-rate, humourless, badly-sung drivel that wouldn't even qualify for a Charlatans b-side from 1993.
And then I heard one of your songs on Virgin radio and I have to admit I was wrong. It was even worse!

Marr is so bitter. Morrissey constantly indicated for the first three years after the Smiths broke up that he'd be open to a reunion. He always kept the door open for him.
It's a shame Marr didn't take him up on it instead of frittering away ten years of his life taking drugs with Bernard Sumner.
Now it's too late because Morrissey found a band of friends whose loyalty knows no bounds and Marr is reduced to reminiscing on nostalgia tv shows.

People still want to listen to Morrissey's music.

its gonna be great seein' marr and rourke back on stage again together. one of the most underrated guitarists with one of the most underrated bassists and not just the 80s but of all time.

rourke's bass has a melodic beauty to it he really did make a "song within a song".

no offense to gary day but if andy was still with morrissey he would have been even a bigger name. im sure of it.

Shouldn't Marr be slightly more grateful for Moz playing all these co written songs on live singles and albums? Would he not have raked in a few quid songwriting from Earls Court? Not to mention the general interest in the Smiths which survives on the back of Moz's endeavours. If it were left to Marr, we'd be posting on a non existent board right now.

to be fair yATQ sold just about 1 million worldwide and is morrissey's biggest album by all indications but the first electronic album while not that great sold more than 1 million (I think 1.5) back in the early 90's. so it isn't like marr hasn't had any success, just not consistent sucess or any brillant records. and honestly the man has every right to be bitter. Could you imagine spending 19 years of your life being asked about something you quit? He's still always been a brillant guitarist and his whole adult life past the age of 22 is always going to be "so are you and morrissey friends again?" They don't hate each other, they have made that clear so I doubt he would be doing it out of jealousy he could just be angry about being asked about morrissey the man has every right to be

I think it's kind of very difficult for any Smiths fan hearing so many bad things from a hero like Johnny Marr. Besides Allain Whyte, the only guy capable to put Morrissey's poetry into beautiful and remarkable melodies was Johnny, wasn't it? What really hurts me is the arrogant attitude towards Morrissey and Smiths legacy coming from him. Marr whenever he gets the opportunity he slaggs his past off. The man himself always pretended he isn't a legend. It seems that he acts as he were smaller than Bernard Summer, Johnn Squire, Noel Gallagher, but never smaller than Morrissey and his band (Alain Whyte, specially). Marr's solo work is pure crap. It's clear he's more interested in playing like the drug addicted britpop bands from the 90's than to play in the unique style he once created as a Smith. Marr should perfectly fit in Guns and Roses. Axl Rose, a man hated by his old band mates, would like to have someone as arrogant as him. Great couple of bigmouths! I wonder Marr completely stoned playing Sweet Child O'Mine ... Ha ha ha ha!!!

So he picks up every Moz solo album, plays a few tracks and then ejects the cd once he's confirmed his preconceived notions? Strange behaviour...

Then again, Morrissey has never been supportive of Marr's extra-curricular activities (which is all they amount to, really).

that Marr, if he were 100% honest, would not admit - albeit grudgingly - that Arsenal and Vauxhall are accomplished works. Anyone with ears can hear that. I can see his point on the other records, since after Vauxhall Morrissey's sound did tend towards soupy rock - even on Southpaw, where the songs are just longer. Marr's criticisms have full force on a record like 'Maladjusted', where Moz and his band fell into the trap of a) being badly produced; b) allowing underdeveloped melodies to pass muster in a "that'll do" kind of way and c) repeating bitterness over the court case on record. Moreover, Alain and Boz fell into the rut of simply producing "pop-rock" with diminishing returns. YATQ did little to dispel this IMO, although even Marr should, if being fair, admit that 'Gang' was a super pop song especially if, as I believe to be true, he was so fond of 'Playboys' in the late 80s/early 90s. But I feel that Marr probably realises that Arsenal/Vauxhall are good records (brilliant records IMO) even if they are not to his taste. Witness Alain's playing on 'Hated For Loving' which is not a million miles away from Marr's own style, albeit less inventive. Witness 'Seasick', which is surely sublime to anyone with ears who likes alternative music. Having said that, I heard 'Getting Away With It' again the other day, and was reminded of Marr's prowess. If Boz and Alain are to prove Marr wrong, however, they must pull themselves out of the rut they are in. I hope Ringleader sees them do this.

After 1995, it was too late anyway.

Let's oblige Marr by never speculating on this again. Seriously. Marr has made it abundantly clear that it's not going to happen, so let him be. Let him create with the Healers et al.

I actually think that Morrissey, now "in it for the long haul", has a very interesting career as a solo artist ahead of him (the alternative Sinatra etc), and never forget that solo artists are far more credible as age encroaches (cf The Stones vs Bob Dylan). Provided he actually produces the goods (he has been underperforming since Vauxhall) with Ringleader and beyond, I can actually foresee a time when he is regarded as more of a solo artist than a Smith. I think the press accepts him like that these days. His work with Boz and Alain is now given major previews and he is portrayed as a revered artist in hiw own right. Of course, it all depends on the quality of his work, but he could potentially do it.

It is quite strange that people can spend time slagging off Johnny Marr on here just because he once again is trying to make the point that The Smiths was then and is not now and never will be again. He is a genius and without him we would not have had The Smiths and then it could be argued that Morrissey would never have achieved fame and then never had the successful solo career that he has. We all exist and have what we have because of our past. Marr is an artist in his own right and that is all he wants to be recognised for. He does not want a Smiths reunion, it was him after all that walked out and so brought an end to The Smiths. I don't think it is a matter of jealousy, he just wants people to see him as he is now and not keep asking him to reunite. It will never happen and I don't think it should happen now or ever. That was then and I really don't think they could pull it off again even if they tried. The emotion and feeling is not there anymore. Those of you who say Morrissey has succeeded as a solo artist and Marr hasn't; you are right but you have to remember that it is always much easier for the man at the front to stay in the limelight and get a new band and carry on than it is for one of the band even if the music was Marr's. The voice will always speak louder than the guitar. It is so apparent that Marr wants to move on but people accuse him of being arrogant when he tries hard to make that point. It seems to me people will not let him win. If he says nothing then they spread rumours that there is a reunion and if he speaks out to try to counteract that he is accused of being a snob and being jealous and arrogant.

I repeat he is a genius and we have a lot to be thankful to him for. Now leave him be and allow him to grow in the way HE wants to, not in the way you want him to.

The Smiths are dead, Morrissey lives, Marr lives, maybe even Rourke lives, but is Joyce on the M62 somewhere?

..please send me,catthair@interia.pl

I simply hope the Smiths never reunite. Most of the time those reunions are useless and tarnish the past. let the legend be and forget about it

1) Johnny Marr doesn't really like Morrissey's solo music, this doesn't mean he hates Morrissey. Surely he's entitled to his opinion.

2) We don't really know what went on behind closed doors within The Smiths , and we never will, because there were no objective witnesses.

3) There will be no reunion (if there is I'll eat a KFC)

4) People appear to be very fickle; one minute it's all "Marr is wonderful, the best guitarist ever, The Smiths were all down to his genius and hard work; what a great guy."
In the next breath it's "How dare that sub-standard musician suggest that Morrissey's work is generic."

5) Morrissey's work is not generic.

We hate it when our friends become successful.

Concerning the news about the boxset, I'm hoping that the studio version of 'The Draize Train' is featured. I have only heard the live version featured on RANK.

Has that studio version ever been put on CD before? Or is it only on vinyl?

I know opinions on music are as subjective as tastes for food, dressing styles, etc. One more reason why Johnny's opinon on Morrissey's music sounds overly and suspiciously generic: on all of the 8 or 9 solo albums Morrissey has put out, Marr's opinion is exaclty the same, and founded on albums he barely (if actually) listens to. Now, that's still not a justifiable reason to slag off his work. So I give The Healers a try, I listened to the music samples on amazon.com, of an album that had, let's face it, an average customer rating that was less than desirable. His style, where was it? What is it? Frankly, The Killers, who have also been mentioned as negative critique of Morrissey's music, have more of a music muse (passion) that The Healers claim to sound to have. To me, personally, they sound like The Jesus and Mary Chain without this group's passion. I am very ecletic, and open to all kinds of music, from classical, to folk to punk rock - whatever sounds like a fullblown musical expression of the soul to me. The Healers don't sound like that. No offense to The Healers fans, if there are some in this site, but to me, Johny sounds like a sick moaning cat that gave up his struggle for life.

I think numbers do mean something. The ones at amazon.com expressed the opinons of buyers that gave The Healers a chance they have given The Smiths. However, look at the average rating of each of Moz's solo albums: as controversial and questionnable his solo work gets to be depicted by the music press, the average customer tends to give it at least four, four and a half stars. The Healers got from two to three.

It sounds like this guy needs to get over his unavowed jealousy, or feelings of any unsolved nostalgia he's blocking, because he really doesn't *sound* like he is moving on; he merely sounds like he is caught up in the pretentious emotionlessness of showing and not expressing a musical style The Jesus and Mary Chain took much further, much more convincingly.

"Everyone wants a Smiths reunion"! That's not true! Myself, being a Morrissey fan for all these years I couldn't imagine him performing again with Mike Joyce for example. From what I know about his life and mostly from his songs, he makes me experience myself all these emotions he was feeling on various occasions. So, on this matter, I just put myself on his shoes: Would I risk another dismay? No way! I really think that when people say that they want a Smiths reunion they don't actually mean it. What we would all want is for the Smiths never to have split up! Whenever I think of it, it was a real pitty for the music world to lose a band formed of 2 geniuses and 2 of the best instrument players... As for Johnny, I can't bear malice towards him; however, I think that everyone has the right to critisism, but it's a bit complicated when it comes to your ex-fellow band mate. If he was respectable, in case he didn't like Morrissey's work, he wouldn't have said anything; now it seems like he's commenting out of pure envy...

I had to write this to which I think you may agree after you read it. First of all, if you were fortunate to have seen The Smiths play live once, twicw or 100 plus times, you DO NOT HAVE TO READ THIS! But for all of you who have never had the royal privaledge to do so unlike myself, PLEASE READ BELOW. And then, READ IT AGAIN!
          When the lights went down and Andy, Mike, Morrissey and Johhny broke into the first bars of Hand in Glove or whatever song they started off with, you could hear as well as see that magic music that only the four of them were capable of presenting. It was like seeing Led Zeppelin in 1970, or early shows by The Who, The Jam or even The Clash. But when The Smiths broke up in 1987 {officially}, that magical music that the four of them together, was unfortunatly but true, H-I-S-T-O-R-Y. You could only listen to some bootleg live stuff or some of the studio albums by The Smiths to even try to recapture that magic!
        Now, hear this instead: When you go see Morrissey play live, you are not seeing The Smiths! If you see Andy and Mike play with Sinead O'Conner or anyone else, they are not The Smiths! When you see Johnny Marr play with his solo stints with such bands as 'The The' or the Healers, they are good but, they are not The Smiths either! Now Fast Forward a bit.... If you see Johnny getting back together with Andy and maybe even Mike as well, it is still not The Smiths! And last but not least, if Morrissey decided to join Johnny, Mike and Andy for an Elvis or Smiths song, it will STILL NOT BE THE SMITHS!!! It will be Johhny, Andy, Mike and Morrissey, 4 guys who used to be in band called The Smiths. So why don't all of you who were not fortunate enough to see The Smiths play live because you were too young, they never played near your city or you were out buying New Edition and New Kids on The Block Cd's instead well, give it a rest already. THERE WILL NEVER BE ANOTHER SHOW BY THE SMITHS AGAIN. None, Nill, Nada, comprende? Save your pennies {or dollars} for the upcoming Morrissey tour. There you can close your eyes during 'Rubber Ring' or 'There is a Light That Never Goes Out' and fantasize that you are sitting at a Smiths show. Because thats about the closest you will ever come to hearing them ever and ever again. Sorry but, I didn't break them up, fate did!

were told that it's marr who secretly penned jack the ripper, or Everyday is like sunday and quite many others, you'd say "I knew! That's why they are so good!

Marr is pathetic when he talks about Morrissey in public in those terms. We're still waiting for that "Phil Spector with a guitar". In the meantime we have had a bunch of excellent albums by morrissey, full of songs that are very much worth it. Enjoy A Rush A Push and enjoy Now My Heart is full. If you don't enjoy the latter, it's snobbish prejudiced and narrow-minded of you

It was so much fun heckling Johnny Marr at his concert in Philadelphia last year! Shouting "Morrissey! - Morrissey! - Morrissey!" between songs was great, and you could tell in his face that he was getting pissed off! He's a tawt and doesn't deserve respect. He broke up The Smiths, he gets what he deserves.

I dunno if I would like to see the four people that makes my life less gruesome together again... Their past work is perfection, so really it could only get worse... Or?
If they decide, god forbid, to reunite without Morrissey I will lose it, totally... How could anyone else sing songs like Panic, This charming man or There is a light...?

Let's just wait for Mozzers new album instead

A Smiths-raritiesalbum would be fantastic. Since I'm living under a rock (read: In sweden) I have quite a hard time getting my puny hands across some raritiesmaterial. I don't have a computer either,so......

Johnny Marr's hairdresser informed me that he would not be appearing at the cancer gig if Mike Joyce was going to be there - charity or not - what a nice guy? Is this gig about charity or just relaunching failing careers?!

Well if we can't get tickets for London can we have outdoor screens in say hyde park, where we can watch Morrissey perform live. I went to Earls Court last year and thats what it felt like, all I could see has a dot moving around on stage. I paid £40 just to watch a large screen, so why not just do away with actually being there and watch him in the park on a large screen instead. Furthermore, Why isn't he playing Brighton ? I thought he was excellent there last year. Why three concerts in London !!! Home of the brash outrageous and free !! !

I think the only two Morrissey records that Marr "likes" are Viva Hate and Kill Uncle.

The debut album because it features Stephen Street's work. And the latter, well, because Morrissey's career went downhill.

However, he is not found of the Boorer/Whyte period. Mainly because they helped revamp Morrissey's career while Marr was rotting away.

Marr has a Healers album due this year actually- unless thats what you meant by nothing.

well, to be fair hes only half as stuck up as Moz, who can also be a fair hypocrite when the moods strikes. its well within both their perogotives.

I don't think Marr totally meant what he said about morrissey's solo work. he seemed irritated throughout the interview. i mean, this is how i see it. Marr has interviews because he wasa part of the smiths. He is always asked questions about the smiths and morrissey's work while interviewers (and the public at large) don't care for marr's solo work. it gets frustrating. morrissey of course is not asked too much about marr. even if he is asked about marr, it's just one of many many questions morrissey is asked, whereas the other smiths don't have much beyond the smiths.

so i expect that's why marr was irritated during the interview and he said what he said.

i think marr should have just became a producer and drop the healers thing.

Puddle