He need no longer exist. Off with M. Joyce's head.

Sick down to our hearts!

Hi Julia, tell Moz that US the fans appreciate his comments and back him 100%. We can't control the content of Morrissey So Low! Please only blame ONE person LOL! -1 troll.

Mike Joyce's behavious disgusts me.

The majority of posters on this site support Morrissey over this, the only ones who don't are those who chime in that they 'met Mike Joyce' and he was a 'bloody nice bloke'. Get lost you fawning sycophants.

That's an excellent Briefing Note all the same! What an immensity the autobiography's going to be!

Now that we've been privy to the other side of the story, let's see if the more legally-minded amongst us can come up with any positive suggestions - and turn the SoLow into Solo.

As a fan since 1985, I have to say "fuck Morrissey" for slagging off Morrissey-solo (MorrisseySoLow) -- the one site that kept his name alive during the Malajusted fiasco and the six or seven years that followed. And then to jump on that cunt's website as his own little mouthpiece is a disgrace.

That new album better be fucking excellent if he wants to keep fucking with his core fans.

When Tatu released How Soon is Now Johnny Marr was interviewed about the money they'd make in royalties.

He said something like "I'm sure The Smiths ex-drummer will have plans for the money".

I thought at the time: "Why would Mike Joyce get any of those royalties?". Now I know.

I've waited a long time to hear those details! Mostly, of course because I am nosey... I wish Moz would figure out a legal way to fight back against this tosser and truly make him as poor as everyone thinks he is. As for those of you inevitable posters who are going to slag Moz for insulting the morrissey-solo sight, what the fuck did you expect? I have often wondered if this was indeed a fansite or a hate site. Save the argument that this site was a tremendous help to his career. In your heart, you know that is absolute rubbish! Thank you Moz for setting the record straight! I love you and can't wait to see you again!

Gregg

He is indeed quite wealthy, i don't see the need for the very public radio appearance to promote some relatively worthless items? strange.

but delicious.
more please.

Well said Morrissey. I see Mike Joyce (aka Mike Gross) continues to throw his head and dig his heels in the dirt like the useless broken down nag that he always was. I see some things never change. Mike Gross is a lying hypocritical talentless and worthless piece of human garbage who has caused you nothing but psychological abuse; let alone has taken most of your 100% well deserved money and time. Your comment regarding calling this web site Morrissey SoLow was so funny but 100% accurate. The site is full of alleged fans who are mostly hackers, thieves, and stalkers which is why I rarely come here anymore.
I’ll see you at your next gig with hopefully the light shining on me again. Do you remember? I’ll be the one with the big white paper with the black writing * wink wink *.
Mike should be sent to the glue factory. They should drop him into a $5,000 claimer at Mountaineer with a 1% jockey and 0% trainer for the meet and nobody should give him any peppermints but he certainly deserves to be well whipped well past the wire with a disqualification after the race.
  I don’t understand any of this. I wanted you to win. For all this time while I was away from Morrissey SoLow, I kept anticipating that you would get the lead and I’d be right there in the front row screaming “Where’s the Wire?”, “Where’s the Wire?”, “Where’s the Wire?”.
I’m still never giving up on this. I’ll be riding for my life.

May God be with you always.

Have you noticed how nobody ever defends Joyce unless they met him personally? And this seems to be the basis of their defence. "I met him and he's a nice guy". Yeah you met him at a pub or something and exchanged a few words. So what? (i) On that basis you can't tell what he's like as a person, and (ii) that has no bearing whatsoever on whether his conduct in this legal case was morally right.

dont just shit on it and call the people who pay you by buying your music "low"

we know your so great but come on

wake up and show respect to the ONLY REASON PEOPLE EVEN STILL CARE

MORRISSEY-SOLO.COM

THE ONLY SITE

Mozzer,

Yes, you're older now, and you're a clever swine, but we were the only ones who ever stood by you.

This site has been a voice for you for too long. Voices have opinions, that's the only way they are heard.

First off, thanks for the statement. It helped to clear alot of mystery behind the whole case. What a joke Joyce is, no wonder you don't move back to the UK. But please, don't think badly of MorrisseySOLO because this is the site that saved your career. So many would have not known of your concerts, your releases, etc. Because you never had an official site! This became like one, so be thankful because it's made you money. And to anyone who says differently, what site are you reading now?

Dynamite. ‘kin Dynamite. MozSolow provoked a reaction and got something we have all wanted for a long time……..information (for the first time since I have been here). I also believe what I have just read on TTY is true!

I actually don’t have any loyalty to this site other than it provides a forum to discuss things, mostly Morrissey, with people who have a common interest. That does not mean I don’t appreciate the work that DT does and if it were gone I would miss it.

If I were Morrissey I would be pissed off at this site. People talking shite, slandering and making wild assumptions on issues they really know a sum total of fuck all about (a lot proven by the statement). However, flip the coin onto the other side, this is the information age and all people are doing is discussing what they would have been amongst friends (and strangers we happened upon) in a pub! We are all now in a world wide pub if you like so multiply exponentially and you have the discussions on MozSoLow (I apologise for not getting into the details of anonymous and multiple usernames which cannot happen in real life). In a way I suppose Morrissey can find something out about his fans through here (lots to be proud of as fans, lots to be ashamed of . They know who they are). Works both ways though, Morrissey has now got the truth out, but then again he would not have needed to in the first place?

I adore and love Morrissey the enigma, but not unquestionably and that is only right an proper. I am also sure he could not give a flying in fuck and a packet of ribbed condoms what I think! I do adore and love his music released so far. Almost all of it, but to varying degrees and I think he does give one about this, although collectively not on an individual basis.

The primary reason I come here is to find out about what he is up to, but the discussion is a bonus at times. I even have a few virtual friends here (I think, they are anyway, but they are vapour friends after all) who I would also miss.

Roll on the Album and Tour.

on your outspoken and warm statement, and the time you took to clarify the facts. I was the one who had the thoughts on the damn royalties. I am though appalled to see an ex-Smith, one of the components of my dream band, behave in such a blood-sucking way. But I'm an old cow, I can handle the delayed deception. Anything from you interests me so much, for you being a person who became a part of me, and many others, like a huge invisible whole. I shall maintain, however, that, every now and then in moments when your words get a little to thorny, you say things, unintentionally without wanting to hurt people, but just to "pinch" them in a rather misrepresenting way: this site here is not MorrisseySoLow; David has been working on moderators to keep out the trash-comments in it - but which is the house that doesn't have its trash to throw away? This site is also like a gold mine; if you dig deep enough, you will find witty, knowledgeble and loyal people here. Julia is not the only one "True to You"... Please be more careful with that torn in your side, boy. Love, from the curious cat.

I would it find it hilarious if a crazed Morrissey fan attacked Mike Joyce. QUITE hilarious.

And he is very Rich

make sure you dont buy anymore smiths records because it will be like stealing from MOZ

Surely, the endgame?

The hysterical reaction to this release can only make one wonder at exactly how Morrissey-solo devotees enjoy their off-line lives.
If I invested such a degree of passion and vitriol in one institution, I'm sure I'd have little left over for other pursuits.

I must say that I am extremely happy that Morrissey has posted these comments. I have never really been familiar with his side of the legal story, and these comments have shed some important light on these issues. In the past, I must admit my sympathy has always been with both Joyce and Rourke, who I felt were such a fundamental part of the Smiths sound. I had felt that they had been unfairly compensated for their efforts. I must admit, however, that upon reading these statements, I find Joyce's behaviour to be disgusting. I don't feel he should be selling unheard Smiths' material on e-bay. That music is not solely his to sell, nor should such a cherished piece of Smiths' history be so crudely debased in this way (I mean E-bay for god sake). I will continue to feel the same way about Morrissey, Marr, and Rourke (whom I love), but I have to admit my opinion of Joyce has been forever changed. I do really wish he would stop dragging the sacred name of the Smiths through the mud. I can't imagine how Johnny feels about all this. I think these types of stories are below the legacy of the Smiths, and I wish they would stop occurring. I hope true Smiths fans boycott Joyce's sale of those recordings. I think all true fans will agree.

I never did like his face.

p.s. Why doesn't he get a job?

And Moz has every right to hate Mike Joyce. It's sad that he had to air his private business in order that his own fans don't label him a "devious, trucculent, and unreliable" tightwad.

Now maybe we can finally stop talking about it! (wishful thinking)

I wonder how Joyce sleeps with himself at night. I am thankful for Morrissey's statement.

Now I understand why Morrissey hates this site.

This site has been an important lifeline for fans, but...

the tabloid 'features' were hateful- and I have commented accordingly. The gay bar fiasco/snafu was the final straw. Who really cares who enters a gay bar? I don't.

With love to Morrissey always & forever-
Ken S.

So I'm assuming Morrissey's okay with Andy Rourke now? I thought he didn't like him either?

I am behind Morrissey all the way on this one. As always! My only 'non-related' beef is, 'why did he write'MorrisseySoLow'instead of MorrisseySolo? And, why didn't Moz just answer the question or statement [whatever] on this website, instead of doing it on TrueToYou? I guess I am never happy but really, this website kicks ass over the one that he answers to! Does anybody feel the same way I do?

Sorry to say this Moz, but it is in your best interest. Now that the truth is out, let's not purchase any Smiths Recordings that are Brand New in the packaging. Buy it used or download it, but don't buy it NEW. It is the least we can do for a man who has helped us through many of troubled times in our own personal life.

God Bless you Morrissey.

Sheridan

David T, Why do you let people make post on this Crashing Bore.

(No Attacks on you)

Who Cares about Mike and Andy. They played in the Smiths. Anybody else could have done Bass,Drums alot better. They do not deserve Money for the Creative Works of Morrissey and Marr. This is the stupidest (case) in the music business.

There Could never be a Smiths Reunion with them having Rights for all those wonderful songs.
JOHNNY MARR AND MORRISSEY ARE THE SMITHS!
Hand It Over - Joyce

Fans VS Joyce, Rourke
Come on lets get this shit over with. (Leagaly)

Morrissey Fans of the World UNITE!

People on here are absurdly bitchy sometimes, I think most of the problem is half of them arent even real, just people looking to wind others up.

No one knows, or knew, the facts of the Mozz-Joyce case, or even the relevant Law, so it was stupid to have any forceful opinion either way really. My personal stance for what little it's worth is that I love Morrissey for his music and his honesty in the press.

His sexuality, friendships, legal wranglings etc. are surely no ones business, especially if theyre not privy to the exact details, to speculate over such matters seems a bit crass, to lay in to Morrissey even more bizzare.

Secondly the bitchyness towards Julia is equally as perplexing, and a bit boring. Ive never met her, though she seems perfectly nice, but she's clearly Morrisseys friend, it makes sense that he would communicate through her, why does communicating through one site mean he's pitching sides against another? Im sure the man has better things to do, and so do we, surely?! Its petty and it degrades what is an excellent source of information/news. If she que-jumps then whatever, she wouldnt be the first person in history to push her authority or priviledges a bit far, now would she? Infact im guessing most people would do the same, regardless some of the bile directed towards her on here is scarcely justified even if she does do it.

I hope that there are just alot of people on a wind up/piss take on here, otherwise I worry for society! heh.

Why would Joyce get Marrs percentage of Smiths Royalties? He paid up didn't he?

morrissey - grow the fuck up!

SoLow? So What?

This whole thing is quite funny really.

First of all, the Mike Joyce story was absurd. Who cares if he sells this stuff?

Second, to think Morrissey's comments on Joyce were motivated by the discussion of Joyce's alleged poverty on this site is absurd.

Morrissey hate Joyce, perhaps with good reason. However, default judgments are not secured overnight. By the time Joyce secured the default judgment in 2001, Morrissey clearly had legal counsel, and must have gotten some bad advice from them(damn lawyers). As a caveat, I must say, that I like others am speculating, and because of that, you can all tell me to bugger off.....

I find it hard to believe that this could not have been settled for some amount shy of the amount Morrissey has incurred, yet I understand his unwillingness to settle to degree. F M Joyce. Morrissey is a man of principal and I respect that a great deal.

I guess that is all I have to say. With regard to this website, I think it is important, and has a place. I think everyone on here is most likely a fan, and has probably spent some of their hard earned dollars on Morrisey.

This website is a forum, and a forum invites discussion, both good and bad. Discussion based in fact, and discussion which is baseless.

Would I want a website with a forum on which people can both praise me and degrade me and my work? Hell no, but then again, I am not Morrisey, and I am not in the public eye, and putting my work out there for the world to see and perhaps critique.

Ultimately, we all have choices. If you don't like this website, don't go here. If you don't like Julia's don't go there. The reality is that we are all such rabid fans, we will probably hit them all.

Lastly, if you don't like Morrissey, don't buy his music.

" In 2001, as a final payment of back royalties, Johnny Marr paid Joyce 260 thousand pounds, plus 'costs.'"

And in doing so, Marr spared himself all the rest.

"At this time I was in the US and was not served with court proceedings, so Joyce obtained a Default Judgment. He then put forward a claim from me for 688 thousand pounds - well above and beyond the amount Johnny Marr was ordered to pay. In my absence, the figure was not contested."

We need to know more facts before we can really know what went on here.

A default judgment can be vacated if you file a motion and have a good reason for not having shown up at the court date. Not being properly served while you're out of the country would be a good reason. Which begs the question: Why was Morrissey unable to have the default judgment vacated? He doesn't say. It's none of your business and it is his right not to say. There's more to all this than his statement, however.

Many have speculated that the whole reason Morrissey moved to America in the first place was to try and escape paying his debt to Joyce. While that's speculation, if true, it might suggest Morrissey may not have had a good reason for being absent and unable to contest Joyce's claim.

Because if he had not been properly served and that was why he wasn't in court, he could've had that vacated.

And had he been man enough to go up to Joyce in the 80s, tell him what was going on, and had him sign a contract stating he agreed to 10%, none of this would've happened in the first place.

This is just an observation from having reread Morrissey's statement and being American I went to a currency converter to more accurately see the sums in question— it seems that there are so many fingers in the pie as it were when it comes to music making and divvying up the finances that come from it, that it becomes a complicated affair, to say the least. How exactly does a creative process get an amount applied to it?

In this case though from what knowledge I have of the roles played by members of The Smiths I think it absurd that by an archaic law (the 1890 Partnership Act, mentioned by Moz) a judge awarded Joyce 25%. What it seems to me, apparent from his actions, is that M. Joyce feels his time in The Smiths obligates him to a lifetime of income large enough to support and fully establish no need for him to do anything else. This rankles me but the idea that this man would harass Morrissey’s relatives and threaten them in any way seems thuggish to put it politely. Something about how M. Joyce displays his apparent lack of understanding or just plain ignorance over the situation is puzzling. How can you be oblivious to the ongoing legal battle instigated by your own actions? Appearing on that BBC radio show hocking Smiths records, singing Morrissey’s praises all the while trying to fleece him of income. It seems that Joyce holds to the happiness of Smiths fame while clawing about behind the scenes trying to fill his pockets. What consolation for Moz may be taken in the fact that his work is known by us and is largely what created The Smiths. Morrissey will be known and appreciated long after any of us, including Joyce, will be around to discuss matters of money.

As Morrissey himself said, thanks for reading this,
Langworthy

Really, did anybody here ever think Morrissey would respond in such detail to this ongoing saga? I didn't...The shopping list of Joyce's demands is a lot longer than what I originally though -- and I'm surprised at how much he has actually received thus far. I was under the (misguided) impression that so far all he had received was judgements in his favour, but not much actual cash. My image of a simpleton doggedly pursuing the fiver owed to him from an old friend was wrong. He's actually syphoning funds directly from WB?? What more does he want, indeed. I would, however, love to see Joyce's written response to each point -- can he write?

MorrisseySoLow -- I think this is a passive-aggresive dig at the site and himself -- Moz will self-deprecate until the end. There's no doubt that the site helped keep the embers alight during the winter years, especially in the form of concert information, but the demand to see and hear Morrissey was always there. Moz never went DIY, and no matter how small-scale things got (ie. Maladjusted years) he was still an icon, internet or not.

Anyway, what's funny is that nobody had come up with that fairly simple MorrisseySoLow pun in 8 years of this place?? He's still got it!

In happier times, Johnny Marr once said about Rourke and Joyce:

"If Elvis Presley had had Mike Joyce and Andy Rourke in his band he would have been an even bigger name. I'm sure of it."

A nice thing to say. Was it said solely out of charitable kindness? Throw the bassist and drummer a bone? I don't think so.

I have ears. Putting aside all the unpleasantness of the legal disputes, the recordings prove that Joyce was a drummer the Smiths were fortunate to have on board. Certainly the best drumming Morrissey's ever had backing him.

When it is in Morrissey's financial interests, Joyce is degraded and painted as a monkey who should spend the rest of his life licking Morrissey's ass for having the opportunity to play for someone as great as him.

Obviously it was a great opportunity that Marr and Morrissey gave Joyce. And Marr and Morrissey probably would've made great records without him. But he was a member of the Smiths. And his contribution made them a better band than they might otherwise have been. And I won't take part in hating him just because of some legal dispute for which there are TWO SIDES OF THE STORY.

For me it is about the music. I wish the Smiths members rose above their disputes and treated each other better. It seems to me that both Morrissey and Joyce are being cocks to each other over the past ten or fifteen years, and all bridges have been burned. At some point they probably could've worked things out but now it's all shot to hell. Who's more to blame? I don't know, they both seem to bear blame to me.

Fortunately none of that sad crap can tarnish the beautiful music they made together. When all is said and done, that's what matters to me.

Hey, Morrissey, the cat's out of the bag now! you read our messages!

Yikes. You really shouldn't, you know. We're just internetters. Look at me, I'm anonymous! We're just talking smack to pass the time. I know it's your good name we're often talking smack about, but...okay now I feel bad. Forgive. It's in your heart to forgive. We don't know much about what we speak of.

I do hope Mike Joyce submits a reply to David Tseng and keeps the drama going though! Sorry!

The immense irritation that Morrissey must feel having his legal problems constantly aired in public really came through there. Christ, Moz is a great singer and a timeless artist. What else really matters? Anyone would be driven nuts by this constant nit-picking.

As for knocking this website, I believe he is targeting those people who come on here and bitch about him almost every day. I would do the same thing. It's like having a constant, creepy Greek chorus commenting on every little thing you do, relentlessly.

None of us of us really matters individually, but collectively we must make a heck of a racket...

         

buy from american (or other countries') sites (Moz stated that only the UK royalties go to Joyce). It's better than buying used.

If it were not for him, Morrissey would still be in hiding. The fact that Joyce cut off the money stream keeps Morrissey from his retirement and forces him to tour and put out records.
Sue him again and maybe the concerts will be longer than an hour.

Hey, im writing a new song
and im trying to couple the words ........
'Joyce' with 'Motorway pile-up'...........

any ideas. haaa haaa

go Morrissey!!!!!!!!!!

Bath, England.

It's a shame I like Morrissey's work. It's a shame I like Morrissey having met him several times and actually had the pleasure of spending time at his mum's house that Joyce has tried to seize.

It's a shame because through these things, I am associated with the very narrow minded Moz fans to whom he can do no wrong. You read one side of the story and decide Joyce is the criminal. He sure ain't spotless but anyone who knows anything about Morrissey's personal and business dealings knows that he is a ........ (find your own word.)

Maybe David T should now sue for royalties from YATQ for keeping Moz alive in the wilderness years. It certainly wouldn't have sold as much without him.

And Julia, don't know her, but appears to be the ultimate in sycophantic fans (did she know him first, does she know him well?)

Legal Aid

Do you think Moz is sat here laughing at all our pathetic bitching? He sure knows how to put the cat amongst the pigeons.
I don't think many of us had any idea of the extent of the payments, non-payments, contested legal documents etc that have tarnished The Smiths legacy. But just a few things of note:
Firstly, I don't agree with Morrissey's slagging off of this site as 'SoLow', however, if I had a website dedicated to me that sometimes posted scurrilous rumours and had it's fair share of public mentalists slandering my name, then I'd be pretty pissed too. All that aside, David T is first and foremost a Morrissey fan and this website is a great opportunity to communicate with other fans ... a privilege I sadly lack in day to day interaction. Besides that, the jibe is hardly a personal attack on David and Moz is notorious for such quips against publications like the NME; David should feel proud that he got a mention and got Mozzer fired enough to set the record straight.
Secondly, Morrissey and Joyce are people, and all people are bastards at some point in their lives. Yet, for all his elusiveness, I'm inclined to side with Morrissey on everything he said; mainly because, it was Joyce and Rourke who made the first move towards killing the memory of one of the greatest bands in popular music. Why can't people be satisfied with what they've got? If they'd cared a jot about that band or the people they'd come to think of as family they would've been happy to take home with them the share of the royalties they'd been taking all along and, much more importantly, their credibility.
Thirdly, what louse tries to take away the homes of someone's family? I can't personally hate Mike Joyce, but I don't care what dispute two people are embroiled in, you don't drag innocent parties through the mud for your own avaricious gain ... that is 'so low'. Anyone coming back defending Joyce as a 'nice guy', ask yourself, what 'nice guy' acts like Ebeneezer Scrooge? He even deprives Rourke, his so called 'partner' in the case and those behind the scenes who helped him make a career in music; remember, it's not just Moz who loses out because of Joyce's greed. Morrissey's hatred must be intense; your personal welfare is one thing, but that of your family and friends is sacrosanct. But if I were Moz, I wouldn't worry too much, the laws of karma will ensure that Joyce falls on his face for that act in the not too distant future.
Lastly, I had no idea that royalties from Smiths records sold here go to Joyce. From now on I'm buying any material abroad. Thanks for setting us straight on that one Morrissey.
All told, this last few weeks seem to have been a bit overwhelming on the news front, but it wouldn't be our Moz without the drama.
Plus, if he's reading any of this, I'm going to offer my sympathy, even if he doesn't want it, because it must be hell being hounded every time you come near this beautiful country of ours; Caleb Williams got nothing on you love.
I wish that your fans could do something other than offer our belief in your