I am not alone in the world with my feelings about Morrissey's music and the direction he has taken.

I thought I was the only one who thought on the recent live releases that the older the material was, the worse it sounded. The arrangements on tracks like "How Soon is Now?" are limp and lifeless in comparison to the YATQ tracks. In fact, I found it sad when, watching Who Put The 'M'...? for the third time, I realized that the best instrumentation in the whole show was "No One Can Hold A Candle To You"--a cover, of all things! Why does it have the immediate burst and thrill that Bernard talks about above, and Moz's own material lacks it in this live incarnation?

Oh, and when Bernard said, "by having a musical opinion am i somehow spoiling the fun? well im sorry but since when did Morrissey worry about that....and the idea that what i do creatively correlates to the amount of people watching?" -- spot on! I said the same thing in the last thread about this.

i commend brett for repharasing what was said in a previous article. i can imagine, as a proud fan of morrissey/the smiths, that he would not like to look as being derogative or disrespectful in any way toward them. good on you brett.

that no one visiting this board works as a judge because a lot of innocent people would probably be dead by now.
The smiths meant more to me than anything in this world but i would never slag someone off like many people have done here with Bernard butler just because he has his own opinion and i think he´s really proved that he is a genuine fan like all of us. And yes, he´s a great guitar player and The Tears are a fantastic band just like Suede were, wether you like it or not.
Ah, and not everyone in this world has the same opinion on everything which doesn´t mean they´re fools, bastards or anything similar. Grow up for god´s sake!

"well how come i happily turned down the offer to join the Moz in favour..."

during that 7year gap Moz had w/o a record deal there were many people on this board that had said a moz/butler collaboration would be great. to think that it almost happened! imagine what they could have come up with? or maybe not (anyone who's read the suede bio knows what i'm talking about). two control-freaks at the wheel could have produced some interesting results.

joey

Sometimes comments to journalists are taken out of context, sometimes they aren't and often journalists know exactly what buttons to press.The fact that he has bothered to clarify and explain shows just how much The Smiths music means to him as indeed do Morrissey and Marr's individual solo work.
I like him and i like that he has bothered to explain.

Fair play Bernard, each his/her own. Personally I disagree about the recent reditions of The Smiths tunes. The Smiths for me never really nailed How Soon Is Now live - the 2004 version is as close as anybody has ever got. Shoplifters sounds like it should've sounded when it was originally released, Last Night I Dreamt sounds fantastic and as we know The Smiths never played that live. Bigmouth sounds good, it seemed to sound better there and then in December but in truth I always thought something was lost in that song when The Smiths performed it live. The only debate lies in There Is A Light... and whether you love or loathe the new version I find it rather pointless to get into an argument about how one song sounds live. Yet that's my opinion and people are welcome to agree or disagree.
  In saying that, I was very disapointed with Headmaster Ritual in May. It was too slow, and Alain looked embarrassed at his discomfort in trying to recreate Marr's riff. I don't even think Moz should've played that song. As brutal as his school days were, he's now 45 with bigger fish to fry. Lawyers and northern leeches say nothing to me about my life either.

Surely you heard the band's ska/metal rendition of Hairdresser on Fire on this last tour. Truly awful.

It's good to have ya back berny! I really hope The Tears are worth their salt...
*easymeat

iwas a bit worried with how those comments came off in the Sloan article. ilov how Leaving-by-chance mentioned how he was wary how genuine the sentiment actually was when he posted the original excerpt here on moz-solo, knowing Sloan still has some axe to grind. id never heard of Sloan [and probably will never hear of him again] so iwouldnt hav been as perceptive as he/she was. good on yah.

and it wasnt so much what Bernard had to say [criticisms of the recent live renditions of The Smiths classics], but how he seemed to say it. isomewhat agree with Bernard that Moz's recent live performances of some of the Smiths tracks hav been lacking a little [not all of them though as "Last Night I Dreamt That Somebody Loved Me" on 'Live At Earl's Court' is wonderful]. iwould juste never say that it is sad for him to want to perform his old songs and im glad that he took that wording back.

very much lookin forward to 'Here Come The Tears'!

Bernard Butler is a musical genius and has a right to his opinion. I think he is right. The Smiths songs should be banished forever from Morrissey's setlist. How dare Morrissey for making his fans happy by singing songs that he wrote. Morrissey should be ashamed of himself for this musical transgression. Shame on him.

I could not agree any more, he has said all there is to say about Morrissey/Quary 2005-

Its just an amazing voice, good lyrics and nothing much of anything else

pop music is indeed something more than poetry(well put Mr Butler) or else Morrissey concerts would be like Leonard Cohen shows....cool but, a bit tiresome and thats how I feel when I listen to ALL the new Morrissey music,

The production was awful we know that but all in all its just too safe, musically, and much of the Lyrics as well

I just think he is not lean enough, Artisticly, his plate too full with gorgonzola smothered veggies...

hunger and desperation always produces

Ok, so both Bernard Butler and Johnny Marr were extremely adept, influential guitarists when they were part of Suede & The Smiths. Both wrote some legendary tunes, and had a few years of great success. But since then, only Morrissey can boast of maintaining even a fraction of his former artistic genius. I think he's far better off with Alain/Boz, than either of the two so-called "guitar geniuses"

To point out, given the three albums below, which wouold you choose:

Morrissey - You Are The Quarry
Johnny Marr & The Healers - Boomslang
Bernard Butler - People Move On

While it may be fact that Morrissey has not done much to reinvent himself, and some of the musical arrangements don't soar as they should - why should he have to make a drastic change? He continues to release quality songs, 22 years after that fateful day when Johnny Marr showed up at his door. That's more than most other artists can claim.

Mr. Butler, you've made me a fan (again). Great response. I'll be buying The Tears' album when it comes out...

Hey.

True to his word, Bernie did learn a Suede song for tonight. Just got in from watching the tears at the leadmill in sheffield. As a first encore they played "The Living Dead". Just his guitar and Bert singing, and it was brilliant.

As for the rest of the gig, also very good. Not sure if it lives up to the old suede or not, will have to hear the songs a few times, but definitely better than the post-Bernard glossy version that followed.

Sorry, I realise that this is a Morrissey site, but it seemed relevant.

It takes a real man to admit his mistakes. Props to Bernie for clarifying what he said. It still doesn't take away from the fact that he said what he did. Bernie took the bait from the journalist, and now he has to live with the consequences. Blaming the media and sugar-coating what he originally said doesn't mean that he doesn't really feel that way.

I still disagree that Morrissey is "completely sad" by performing Smiths songs. Moz's supposed "cover" of "There Is A Light..." was sublime on the Earl Courts cd, and pretty solid from the shows I have seen. Another thing, I think that when The Tears start headlining festivals, selling out large stadiums, and get some major airplay, Bernie can then worry about what Morrissey is doing musically.

It seems to have worked for Moz this far. Sure Moz may benefit from getting some new blood into his mix. But unless Bernie is willing to ditch his band and hook up with Moz, he needs to shut his pie hole and work on making his own projects work for him.

quite the fool to shoot his mouth off on a man like Morrissey.

Oops. I was the one who originally printed the article on this site and I'm glad it seems as if I was right about Sloan's interview technique. The man is scum through-and-through and no matter what he touches in regard to - 'what I'm listening to now' - turns to utter shit because in truth he knows nothing about music. He's not done it, he's not studied it, he's not even wrote about it until the gutter press needed him to fill the void of some other complete waste of space.

So thank you Bernard for coming out and giving your side to the whole affair because it's sad to thing if you didn't go to all this effort to post your account, this would still be taken to be credible journalism when really it's the complete opposite.

LBC X

in spite of what he has said, i still think Bernard Butler should not receive such vitriolic reactions.. plus, he offered a sincere apology..

and although i do not agree with his comments, i don't feel any need to be in defense of Moz and be in an offensive mode against him. It is just his opinion..

MOz singing old SMiths songs in his recent concerts? I think he's doing it just to please his fans (which obviously is his agenda.) He's not doing it because he has no new materials to show. IT is part of his setlist; the whole concert is not anchored on his old smiths songs..

So, i really disagree with Butler with this comment..

PS: When will moz invade the Philippines? We're dying to see him live!!!!

At one of their shows.

That's all the fans can talk about over on their forum.

He he he.

What a lot of fuss over nothing. Let's face it, live albums are crap. They bear virtually zero relation to the night they purport to capture. But if Bernard had been at Earls Court, he would have been singing along with everyone else. The lesson: don't judge an artist by a live album.

Suede delivered one of the biggest disappointments in indie rock history after the first two albums, which had the work of Butler on it. i was quite in love with Suede before "head music" and i could live with the 3rd album. but then they were done. gone gone.

lets see what the Tears will deliver. i will then decide if i would want Moz/Marr to work together again.

I listened to the live versions with Bernard's comments in mind last night.

The current band play Smiths songs with less energy and emotion than the original line up. This is understandable for many reasons, age, ownership and what right do they have to artistically reinterpret Marr's contributions anyway?!. But this misses the point, the whole event is about the man that is Morrissey….. how does he move on stage, does he change the tempo of songs, which songs from his past is he proud of, does he change the lines of any songs ('Bruises as big as dinner plates' was widely tipped as a nod to Marr on this site) and what does he say to the audience?

So for me the only point of interest is how does Morrissey interact with the fans and vice versa when the back catalogue (Smiths or solo) is played. I don't expect and neither do I necessarily want to hear Boz, Alain or whoever artistically trying to take Marr's compositions forwards in a new direction.

Suede's original line up I liked. For me they knocked out some great tunes, however, I view The Smiths as seminal but not Suede. For this reason Brett and Bernard need to be careful when talking to journalists, they need to be aware of their contribution to music in the grand scheme of things. Referring to the back catalogue renditions as played by a 'pub rock band' is clumsy at best. Good luck to The Tears, their challenge is to provide us with something seminal. Will their new album put them up there with the greats?

throw the first stone.

Is that you Bernard? I think not. In my opinion, even Johnny and Moz weren't in one by the time they got to Strangeways. It's a bit ordinary and by the numbers apart from two songs. Songwriting partners become to familiar with one another's style and start providing what the other requires after a while. Surely stepping back into that old pattern of working has a great deal to do with comfort even if the participants don't package and present it that way to themselves.

I've been a fan of Butler's guitar work for a long time. When I think of great musicians for Morrissey to collaborate with, the only two that stick out are Butler and Squire. Being the egos they are, it's difficult to imagine either of them sticking around for long.

Obviously Butler visits this site and has been slightly stung by the criticism he received from a few of us on the earlier thread.

While I admire his guitar work and think he'd be the ideal musician to help Morrissey explore the glammy sound he's come up with for "Daddy's Voice," I don't think his attempts to draw parallels between Suede and the Smiths really hold water. I think Butler should accept Suede were a good ealry 90s indie band with plenty of promise, but at the end of the day, they didn't do anything radical or exciting enough to be remembered as a great band. Anderson's lyrics are cliched and repetitive "we're rubbish... you and I... sniffin glue... loving it... like birds.... etc etc." Basically, Suede is one song, divided into many parts. Yes, Butler's guitar can be magnificent (Animal Nitrate) but overall they lacked the emotional resonance and lyrical talent to really fly.

And I think returning to brett instead of joining Moz was a HUGE mistake. Brett will keep doing the same crap he's been wheeling out for 10 years now to no new effect, while Morrissey tries yet another new direction and creates yet another album close to greatness. I know which project I'd rather be involved in. In 5 years, Butler will look back after yet another split from Anderson and regret not giving himself a chance to fill his boyhood idol's shoes and to work with the greatest living poet. Imagine what Butler could have done to flesh out glam like "Daddy's Voice." The results could have been breathtaking.

Myself and a few other resgulars on this site mentioned Butler had been approached prior to the Earls Court gig, to widespread sniggering. Funny how things come around isn't it?

I for one would love to see Morrissey go down that T-Rex route for the next album, and maybe throw in a few odd, dark ballads like "teachers" and so forth. That would be a wonderful mix.

Morrissey and Butler. Eno producing. Imagine how that could have been.

Broken

Dear Bernard,

I think you have a right to comment upon any part of Morrissey's work you wish. You, like us, are a fan of The Smiths and Morrissey's music for many years. I myself am not happy with the new lineup. The songs are somewhat cheapend by a CASIO! sounding keyboard. If you are too deaf to hear that this new band sucks, oh well, get a hearing aid. Hell, The Ocean Blue's live version did the song more justice (TIALTNGO). Don't get me wrong, I love Boz and Alain (top guys) and their commetment to the music. The rest of the guys I am not so sure about.
Morrissey has not been so kind to Suede in the past. He was very jealous of the Brett/Bowie relationship. He would not think twice about slagging some group off. But, he doesn't play that way. He requires you to just blindly love him. No criticism is allowed even if it is justified. That attitude is mirrored here as well. So don't appoligize for saying something true. Stand behind your opinion! People will respect you more. For the record, I love all of The Smiths work and most of Morrissey's solo records. Good luck Mr. Butler in your future endevors. I think you are screwed no matter what band you are in. Morrissey really never should have ask you to be in the band. It is just a clash of interest. It's never good when people join to form supergroups. Electronic?? I could form a list that would scare everyone. Then Brett and you will be Suede forever and the Tears will never compare. No matter what you do with the Tears it is doomed. If you start a new group it will be in the shadow like your solo carreer (which the first record was wonderful). You might not be able to get a record deal with a new set of people. Then you would be stuck like EMF and have to get a real job. I hate to be so negative but you are doomed for a life of living in the shadow.

Suede are not a patch on The Smiths, I can't believe that certain people are talking so highly of them. Somebody mentioned that Suede's first two albums are better than The Smiths first albums WHAT RUBBISH! Suede's first album wasn't too bad but after that it went downhill. Your telling me that Brett wrote better lyrics than Moz and Bernards guitaring can be compared to Johnny you're having a laugh!!!!!

apart from musos and heavy metal fans?
I don't think the 'average’ fan could honestly tell the difference between an amazing guitarist and a competent one. We're more interested in melodies, arrangements, singing, words etc. So when Bernard writes a melody as beautiful as the (guitar-less) 'never played symphonies', or a single as upbeat and joyful as 'first of the gang', or a b-side as fruity and uproarious as Daddy’s Voice, he may then be in a position to criticise...
John

"i'd rather see an artist playing russian roulette with their music than getting the pipe and slippers out and living through nostalgia..."

http://www.nme.com/news/112101.htm

Apparently they just played a Suede song last night. 'The Living Dead' has got to be one of my favorite Suede songs, if not my favorite.

Living through nostalgia? You may say "no" because the song is a b-side, but we know Suede fans would go see The Tears just to hear that song. We also know that their b-sides killed the A-sides!

Bring back the old, kill the new!

Many people's interest in the Smiths was generated by one of the five instruments - Morrissey's voice. That interst remains today. The opeartic wail at the end of "Last Night" on Earls' Course is a thrilling version of the song that expresses the rich texture of the lyric in a way not displayed by the production of Strangeways. The older songs are not being perfored in a nostolgia band fashion.

Butler please kiss my ass AGAIN!!!
Thanks.

I always used to think that Bernard Butler was a bit of a fuckwit. Now I know he is.

The Headmaster Ritual and Rubber Ring sound terrible live on the dvd. The band seems like they've never heard it and don't know how to play it. They seemed bored and more interested in playing what they helped write.

First 2 records brilliant. Butlers remarks are right on... I think every fan might not agree but trust me, every musician would agree entirely ;o)

-j

bernard butler was the original guitarist of the UK band suede. in the earlier 90s they had massive succes in th UK and were being hailed as the next Smiths. they actually wrote some great songs. he left suede in 94 and they went on with another guitarist. now the original songwriting team got back together under the name the tears. his comments are unfortunate but you really should check out his work with suede. it is some of the best music out there.

joey

Actually, if anyone playing the guitar today is worthy of comparisons to Johnny Marr, it's Bernard Butler. Downloading any old Suede song won't do, as Bernard only was on board for the first two genius albums. Those two albums are considerably better than the Smiths' first two LPs. Furthermore, when Bernard was around, Suede released singles (and b-sides) to rival the best of The Smiths work. Call it blasphemy if you will, but the Smiths and Suede are both brilliant. Burying your head in the sand (and in the past) and not having a clue about the existence and brilliance of Bernard Butler is just sad.