"Miraval" sessions - more lost / forgotten songs?
posted by davidt on Thursday February 08 2001, @10:00AM

An anonymous person sent in a couple scans from around the time of the recording of Southpaw Grammar.UPDATE (Dec. 11, 2001): Boz wrote in to say that "Honey, You Know Where To Find Me" is a real song, and he was the one who actually wrote it.

 
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    "Miraval" sessions - more lost / forgotten songs? | Log in/Create an Account | Top | 62 comments | Search Discussion
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    Why a new record?? (Score:1, Insightful)
    Aha, so there is these, and appearantly there's been a song called "Fantastic bird" knocking about for quite some time, and God knows what else.... So, why actually record a new record?? Morrissey could just release all the rubbish that's wasting away at the bottom of various draws, kinda like Oasis did. I'd be quite happy with that.
    Mozzarella -- Thursday February 08 2001, @10:06AM (#7522)
    (User #864 Info | http://www.bozboorer.com/ )
    If I wasn't a cat, I'd be a girl.
    David... (Score:0, Redundant)
    Can this source be trusted?
    Lifeguard Sleeping -- Thursday February 08 2001, @10:23AM (#7525)
    (User #58 Info)
      Unreleased songs (Score:3, Informative)
      here's my list of unreleased songs. Can anyone add more to this??

      THE SMTIHS:
      A FOOL SUCH AS I (first few bars of the song inadvertently deleted)
      I WANT A BOY FOR MY BIRTHDAY
      FRANKLY MR. SHANKLY (alt. version with trumpets)
      ASK (original Moz/Marr produced)
      ARCANA (Moz/Marr)

      MORRISSEY:
      STRIPTEASE WITH A DIFFERENCE (Viva Hate sessions or Moz/Langer 5/90)
      OH PHONEY (Moz/Armstrong 8/90)
      MY NAME IS MORTIMER (Moz/Street 11/90)
      ME SATISFIED (Moz/Street)
      NOVEMBER THE SECOND (Moz/Armstrong 90)
      KILL UNCLE (Moz/Nevin 91)
      BED TOOK FIRE (Moz/Street 5/91)
      BORN TO HANG (Moz/Nevin 2/92)
      FANTASTIC BIRD (Moz/Whyte 6/92)
      STAY AS YOU ARE (Moz/Whyte 10/93)
      LAUGHING ANNE (Moz 1995)
      YOU SHOULD HAVE BEEN NICE TO ME (Moz 1995)
      A GIRL I USED TO KNOW (Moz/? 95)
      I’M NOT WORTH HITTING (Moz/? 97)
      HONEY YOU KNOW WHERE TO FIND ME (Whyte)
      KITT
      PLEASE HELP THE CAUSE AGAINST LONLINESS (MORRISSEY VOCAL VERSION)
      robert -- Thursday February 08 2001, @10:37AM (#7527)
      (User #95 Info)
        Re:Unreleased songs (Score:3, Insightful)
        Are many / any of these available via authenticated MP3s or other sound files on the Internet?

        And, if so, perhaps we could create a permanent resource here with links to those sound files (as opposed to the few scattered -- and often hoax -- links that blossom every so often around here).
        jeremy -- Thursday February 08 2001, @10:49AM (#7528)
        (User #1757 Info)
        [ Parent ]
          Re:Unreleased songs (Score:2, Informative)
          you're forgetting another one, i've came across..
          I'd Love To - instrumental
          xavier -- Thursday February 08 2001, @04:22PM (#7548)
          (User #181 Info)
          [ Parent ]
            Oh, you have loads of songs, so many songs... (Score:3, Informative)
            Here’s all the bits and pieces I’ve heard rumours of and anything I know about them. I know Melanie was a hoax but it was incredible how a vague recollection of a song played on the radio many years before stirred so many memories and resulted in a recording of the song appearing. If it can be done with hoaxes, why not with the real thing? Lets put our collective heads together and dig this stuff up, or finally confirm the dubious ones as hoaxes. Scans, lyrics, demos, different versions- it’s all out there somewhere! (There are some pretty unlikely things in this list- I was just trying to be completist!)

            1. Arcana –listed at BMI.com as a Morrissey/Marr composition. Johnny Marr has stated that he has never heard of it. An old Smiths track, a recent collaboration or a hoax? Does anyone know the procedure for registering songs with BMI? Would it be easy for someone to register a fake song under M&M’s name, or would some authentification be needed? Could it be a joke by Morrissey and Marr themselves, after all ‘arcana’ means a mystery, a profound secret, so it would be the perfect name for a fake ‘unreleased’ track.

            2. I Want A Boy For My Birthday- we have the 30 second clip, where’s the rest?

            3. Sha La La Song & Summer Nights by Marianne Faithful- Nick Kent says in an article in ‘The Face’ that The Smiths attempted these covers.

            4. What Do You See In Him? – Is there a studio version of this early version of Wonderful Woman?

            5. Born To Hang and Kill Uncle- Mark Nevin says these songs were never finished. Unfinished versions, demos anyone?

            6. Drive-In Saturday –Bootleg MP3s of this live Bowie cover are available, but is there an ‘official’ recording?

            7. Fantastic Bird – Rumoured to be an Alain Whyte instrumental. Did Morrissey supply the title? Difficult to see something with no Moz contribution being released under the Morrissey banner.

            8. Harry Rag- Which gig did Morrissey play this Kinks cover at? Does anybody have a recording?

            9. Kitt- Any information?

            10. My Insatiable One- Any official recordings of this live Suede cover known?

            11. My Name Is Mortimer- Is this a Morrissey/Street song, or cover of the Mort Shuman song of the same name? If it’s a cover, is it sung in English or French?

            12. November the 2nd – Alternate version of November Spawned…

            13. Oh Phoney- A Kevin Armstrong collaboration from 1989.

            14. Please Help The Cause Against Loneliness- Does a Morrissey version of this song exist?

            15. Stay As You Are- An Alain Whyte collaboration from 1993.

            16. Striptease With A Difference- This song definitely exists, but can anyone vouch for the lyrical fragment that has been posted?

            17. Take Us The Way We Are- No information?

            18. Trash- Well, we can watch it on video, but…

            19. Buddy Buried Deeply- Lyrics anonymously posted years ago (possibly on one of the Cemetry Gates forums). Supposedly Southpaw era. I can’t find any trace of these lyrics now, but I remember it as being quite a short lyric, with a line something like ‘From Belfast to Beirut, from Jupiter to my bedroom.’

            20. Agreeable Civil Servant- As for Buddy Buried Deeply, alleged lyrics to this alleged song were posted in a forum years ago. The discussion surrounding it suggested it was a favourable song about Jake Walters destined for Southpaw, then removed and possibly replaced by Best Friend On The Payroll when their relationship ended. The only lyrical snippet I can recall is the arresting line ‘Let my words fuck you’!

            21. A Fool Such As I- Rumoured Smiths-era Elvis cover. A studio error supposedly erased the opening bars. We don’t care- we’ll have whatever’s left!

            22. Father And Son- Asked about a Smiths song of this title in an interview, Morrissey replied ‘It’s about to emerge and I’m sure it will change your life.’ (Melody Maker, March 1985)

            23. A Girl I Used To Know- Is this the ‘Melanie’ hoax, ‘You’ve Had Her’, or a different song? If it’s ‘You’ve Ha

            Read the rest of this comment...

            John Fidler -- Thursday February 08 2001, @07:39PM (#7556)
            (User #2134 Info)
            [ Parent ]
            • Re:Oh, you have loads of songs, so many songs... by nobody's nothing (Score:1) Thursday February 08 2001, @08:11PM
              • Re:Oh, you have loads of songs, so many songs... by robert (Score:1) Friday February 09 2001, @07:46AM
              • Re:Oh, you have loads of songs, so many songs... (Score:2, Informative)
                Excellent list John! Great work. I think you touch on a very important point: Morrissey-solo can be a powerful enabler to unearthing these ultra rare recordings if fans come together to share knowledge and materials.

                I feel confident that many of the tracks you listed do exist. Some of the tracks *ARE* already in the hands of collectors (i.e "Striptease" & "Never Had No One Ever" (Truphet Version) & The complete recording of "Boy For My Birthday") I'm not sure of their motivation for keeping these dusty tapes to themselves but I believe even they would benefit by making them available to the rest of The Smiths community. How?

                1) I can't imagine Smiths fans not being highly appreciative of another fan making available one of these "lost" recordings.

                2) Through the goodwill of making a track they have available, they may discover that tracks they don't have also become available.

                3) The general preservation of the track and continued existence of the recording if released will remain should the limited copies in existence ever become inadvertantly destroyed.

                4) Based on the 30 second clip of "I Want A Boy For My Birthday", the recording has already become heavily worn. I'm certain that tracks like these could be restored somewhat if digital copies were made available to other fans with the appropriate audio equipment.

                To add to our knowledge pool, following is some additional information I've found.

                Mike Joyce had this to say on his web site:

                "I Want a Boy" was played by The Smiths in the very early days, 1982. I don't have a recording of that, but I have a 1982 rehearsal tape of "What Do You See In Him?" Which eventually became, "Wonderful Woman". I also have about 100 tapes of assorted stuff including: Out- takes,instrumentals and unreleased material that I am thinking of taking to WEA. "Never had no one ever", with trumpet would you believe! Dale was playing bass with Johnny and Morrissey when I turned up at Spirit studio's in Manchester. he played the Ritz gig also."

                The Dale that Mike is referring to at the end of his statement is the same Dale Hebert that auctioned off the original Smiths demo reels several years ago. Along with the demo reel the winning bidder received a complete copy of "I Want A Boy For My Birthday". To prove the legitimacy of the tracks, the 30 second clip that we have today was created. My understanding is a fan/collector from Denmark (who consentrates on one-of-a-kind Smiths collectibles) was the winning bidder. Anyone know this collector? The original demo reel supposedly also contained an alternate version of "Suffer Little Children" that contained the sounds of children playing on a playground in the background (with dogs barking).

                Mike also seems to have cleared up some confusion about which track had the alternate trumphet version - "Never Had No One Ever" instead of "Frankly". Or does a trumpet version of "Frankly" exist as well?

                My understanding is that "Harry Rag" by The Kinks was only covered by Morrissey during select sound checks on tour. I am pretty sure the song was never played before a live audience or recorded in the studio.

                A couple of years ago I asked Morrissey in an online chat about the song "Kitt". He essentially responded that the song did exist but it would never see the light of day. Anyone that still has a transcript of that online chat may be able to cull his word for word reply.

                When I asked Johnny Marr on his website about "Boy", here was his reply:

                "The Smiths played that song at our first gig at The Ritz in Manchester but I don't think it was recorded."

                James Maker danced on stage at that first Smiths performance. Maker also recalls the "Boy" track but says he has no early recordings of any Smiths material. However he has confirmed that Morrissey at one point did want to cover his song "No One Can Hold A Candle To You" (A brilliant song that Morrissey should still consider covering) but Morrissey later changed his mind about the

                Read the rest of this comment...

                Ben -- Friday February 09 2001, @11:19AM (#7592)
                (User #212 Info)
                [ Parent ]
                • Re:Oh, you have loads of songs, so many songs... by 1230 (Score:1) Friday February 09 2001, @12:51PM
                  • Re:Oh, you have loads of songs, so many songs... by mozz1980 (Score:1) Friday February 09 2001, @11:27PM
                    • Re:Oh, you have loads of songs, so many songs... by Anonymous (Score:0) Saturday February 10 2001, @07:11AM
                    • Re: Sparks collaboration by Anonymous (Score:0) Saturday February 10 2001, @12:52PM
                      • I want a boy for my birthday by Anonymous (Score:0) Saturday February 10 2001, @02:22PM
                      • Re:Oh, you have loads of songs, so many songs... by nowhere fast (Score:1) Monday February 12 2001, @12:42PM
                      • Re:Unreleased songs by Anonymous (Score:0) Sunday February 11 2001, @09:14AM
                      • Re:Unreleased songs by Anonymous (Score:0) Saturday December 15 2001, @08:11AM
                        Laughing Anne- source (Score:2, Informative)
                        'Laughing Anne' is the title of a play by Joseph Conrad (who wrote the novel 'Billy Budd'). So, it seems like a feasible Moz source. Of course, if you were a hoaxer coming up with fake Moz songs, your first stop would be his previous inspirations, so...where does that leave us!
                        John Fidler -- Thursday February 08 2001, @09:00PM (#7560)
                        (User #2134 Info)
                        Alain Run to the Publisher's Office (Score:1)
                        I hope Alain had a chance to get the song that is pictured(Honey...) credited before this item was posted.
                        Johnny Marr -- Friday February 09 2001, @08:50AM (#7576)
                        (User #1113 Info)
                        There is no such thing in life as normal.
                        Marcel Proust (Score:1)
                        Having just finished the final volume of Remembrance Of Things Past, it intrests me enormously as to which poem of Proust's that Morrissey recited, mentioned in one of the above comments, during one of his concerts. Does anyone remember?
                        Thanks, Charles Swann-
                        giant -- Friday February 09 2001, @03:25PM (#7604)
                        (User #430 Info)
                        I Like You
                        • Re:Marcel Proust by kestrelia (Score:1) Monday February 12 2001, @04:42PM
                        • Re:Marcel Proust (Score:2, Informative)
                          According to this Momus website, it was actually an excerpt from somewhere in the volumes you've just ploughed through.

                          The quote goes:
                          'Artists aren't curators! A good curator tries to frame something reasonably accurately, whereas an artist who takes another artist's work and samples or quotes it is stealing or using it creatively!' I point out that he (Howard Devoto) did exactly that with Dostoyevsky and Proust (I remember the spine-tingling moment when Morrissey came onstage in the middle of a Luxuria show and read a few lines from 'A La Recherche Du Temps Perdu').

                          This is the URL:
                          http://www.demon.co.uk/momus/thought140299.html

                          John Fidler -- Wednesday February 14 2001, @05:19PM (#7839)
                          (User #2134 Info)
                          [ Parent ]
                        Lost / Forgotten songs (Score:1)
                        I have been wondering, I mean reading about these unheard songs...Would you like, that all your forgotten and thrown away material would someday appear somewhere? Like your diaries or your thrown away bad paintings...I think not. Creative work always does always leaves something on the side.Something unusable.
                        Dorothea Yoghurt -- Friday February 09 2001, @03:51PM (#7605)
                        (User #132 Info)
                        mhhh (Score:1)
                        Half of the songs stated in this thread were
                        only rough songs who had give a titel, when
                        one has to go in the studio to create something
                        of it.

                        It's possible that a few of those songs are
                        songs we already know...

                        But there are undoubltly songs we never heard.
                        Celibate Cry <vauxhall@mail2uk.com> -- Friday February 09 2001, @08:50PM (#7608)
                        (User #220 Info)
                        and the hills are alive with celibate cries
                          Yet More Songs... (Score:1)
                          I'd guess some of these may have come out with different lyrics or turned into other songs. But there is also the first version of Sheila Take A Bow with Sandie Shaw on backing vocals. And two other rumoured Southpaw-era songs, Snake Curves Silently and, the one possibly about Bowie, In Control of Dame Dominance... any more anyone?
                          Dirk McNasty -- Saturday February 10 2001, @01:34AM (#7620)
                          (User #406 Info)
                            The Dates Seem Incorrect (Score:1)

                            In past interviews and Southpaw-era articles, Morrissey and various writers stated that Southpaw was a very immediate record, inspired by the cohesiveness of the In Person tour. Besides, the liner notes state it was recorded in March and April. And wasn't it recorded at Hook End Manor in Reading? So if these tracks do indeed exist at all, they aren't Southpaw tracks per se.

                            Cheers,

                            Jamie
                            Jamie <northpaw22@netzero.net> -- Saturday February 10 2001, @11:20AM (#7630)
                            (User #48 Info)
                            On the subject.. (Score:2, Informative)
                            As long as we're talking about "lost sessions" I should mention that there was also an unreleased Peel Session recording made in 1988 at Maida Vale studios. I'm not sure what was recorded, but it was never released due to what Morrissey termed "poor treatment" from the Maida Vale staff.

                            And there were also studio recordings made in New Orleans during the '92 tour that remain unheard.
                            GurgleJerk -- Saturday February 10 2001, @02:30PM (#7636)
                            (User #492 Info | http://members.aol.com/rtdanger )
                            GurgleJerk of Rush To Danger
                              what i like to see (Score:1)
                              do you think if our current resident morrissey imitator wrote lyrics and a melody line to "honey ..." that it would be a reasonable imitation of what the original song sounds like? :^)
                              suzanne <{suzsch} {at} {sbcglobal.net}> -- Sunday February 11 2001, @12:19AM (#7653)
                              (User #36 Info | http://www.myspace.com/snootywriter )
                              I scare dead people.
                              You Don't Know Anything (Score:2, Interesting)
                              Stephen Street apparently has quite a few demos and unreleased songs from the Viva Hate sessions. Does any one know his email address!? Also, I recall someone (Street?) saying there was a scrap of a song at the final Smiths sessions called: You Don't Know Anything...
                              Dirk McNasty -- Sunday February 11 2001, @02:02AM (#7658)
                              (User #406 Info)
                              The sign of the times ? (Score:1)
                              Isnt it a bit sad that all these messages about lost songs are getting so much web space?

                              Would we really be so interested if Moz had released anything new in the last 2 years ?

                              Old songs/new versions great but something new would be even better
                              domjones -- Sunday February 11 2001, @08:16AM (#7669)
                              (User #2361 Info)
                              the jpg pics of past. (Score:1)
                              another anonymous post.
                              Hmmmmmmmmmmm.

                              david t. u have the power to find this person's tcp / ip address anyway but i believe u know where they come from.
                              this story would really come alive if u said "ok morrissey or one of his aides did actually post them".
                              thinking about it logically theres got to be a song or two left over from most album / album sessions, after all u dont go in the studio with exactly the right amount of tracks to lay down.

                              all said and done we'll probably never hear them but we'd love a new lp to be released.

                              i like the titles for the unreleased maybe unrecorded stuff.

                              mozz if u r reading today how about:-
                              1.demons in my heart.
                              2.chasing lucy
                              3.let me make it up to you
                              4.games without toys
                              5.by way of alliance

                              so i'd like to write, nite nite zzzzzz

                              mgr

                              inlovewiththepast -- Tuesday February 13 2001, @12:11AM (#7724)
                              (User #1028 Info)
                              truth rest your head there is more than a life at stake here..she may well sell sanctuary but she'll also sell your soul
                              Trainspotter alert (Score:0)
                              By way of being conclusive about this, it was reported at the time of the Viva Hate sessions that 36 songs had been recorded (even accounting for Cause Against Loneliness, I Know Very Well How I Got My Note Wrong (!) etc) that leaves a large number. Also, after the Smiths demise, nme reported that 4 uneleased songs existed, including Hell Hath No Fury Like a Child With No Heart, which were, as I had to sadly inform most friends, an Aprils Fools Day joke.
                              Anonymous -- Tuesday February 13 2001, @01:14AM (#7728)
                                breaking news about melanie hoax song! (Score:0)
                                for those of you scurrying around frantically (panic on the streets of morrissey-solo.com) I have in my possession hard confirmation that the so called hoax "melanie" is not a "hoax". The song is just disguised as a different song you might know as......."jack the ripper" GASP??!!!!!??!?! yes I know what your thinking....how? well according my source the song started out being about a teenage girl moz knew in his early teen days the went missing. he (with his great wit) thought it clever to pronounce to those he knew that she was jack the rippers victim. thus when he was in his early hay day of writing he made this song....more of a joke than truth..but he fancied the idea of knowing someone that was a victim of such a "famous" criminal. (last of the international playboy idea) Later on the lyrics were forgotten then dredged up by moz again changed to "jack the ripper". so you see some of you were right....it was a hoax only by moz himself!!!
                                Anonymous -- Friday February 16 2001, @06:29AM (#7934)


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