Morrissey-solo
Archive
|
|
|||||||||
posted by
davidt
on Monday November 20 2000, @11:00AM
tina writes:
In the Nov. 19 L.A. Times Magazine [it comes with the Sunday paper] there is an article called "The Wizards of Moz". It talks about the many Latino fans of Morrissey. I haven't read it all yet. I just got really excited when I saw it. Link to the article at latimes.com from suedehead: "The Wizards Of Moz" by David Lott For the Many Latino Fans of the Enigmatic Morrissey, Jose Maldonado and the Sweet and Tender Hooligans Are a Lifeline to Their Hero.Scans of the photographs from the article, taken by Marcos Lujan:
"Moz fans flock to the Brave Bull to see Jose Maldonado and The Sweet And Tender Hooligans cover music by Morrissey and his old band, The Smiths"
This discussion has been archived.
No new comments can be posted.
Sweet and Tender Hooligans / Latino fans article in Los Angeles Times Magazine
| Top
| 152 comments
| Search Discussion
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
|
|||||||||
|
mexican Morrissey??.... i don't think so (Score:1)
(User #1720 Info)
Bwaha haha haha hahah (Score:1)
"When I'm covering Morrissey, all eyes really are on me," says [Jose] Maldonado. "If we had to replace anybody in the band other than myself, I don't know if they would be missed."
What an ego on this counterfeit. It took me a full 2 hours to stop laughing after I read this bit from the article. Who in this hell does this karoke singer think he is? This reproduction band is really only getting attention because their "fans" like the clothes, the hairstyles, the sexual ambiguity (males only), and the fact that cruising is now illegal in most parts of Los Angeles.
(User #1665 Info | http://www.cherryplucker.com/)
mexican morrissey... (Score:1)
(User #418 Info | http://www.leavemealoneiwasonlysinging.not/)
Cover bands are a waste of time (Score:0)
jose (Score:0, Flamebait)
(User #482 Info)
Awww, You've done it now....... (Score:1)
hang him in T.J.
hang him in T.J. in tj in tj in th........
(User #429 Info)
Sweet and tender.. (Score:1)
Well I was a few People in front of him in line At the Hollywood siging and not one person seemed to notice him. I give the guy alot of credit For having a good( So ive heard) cover band, I mean I've never seen them myself. But All I can say is.. Many can try to impersonate Morrissey but none will succeed :-p It's also hilarious how it said people storm the stage to give him hugs.. I myself Has tried getting on stage At a Morrissey show and Thought I must have been crazy afterwards. That is something I would only do for the man himself!
(User #1644 Info)
Re:ive seen you "ladymoz"..... (Score:2, Insightful)
I love Morrissey with all my heart, as I'm sure as most of the people that frequent this site do. You have no right to judge just how big of a fan I am based on my SATH show attendance.
Goodnight and Thank you.
(User #154 Info)
Parent
racist scum (Score:2, Insightful)
your "useless brown flesh" comment sickened me. how can you possibly post something like that in a public forum?
YOU are the useless one, with your tainted soul so clearly full of hate, prejudice & ignorance.
(User #1308 Info | http://www.facebook.com/djceremony)
Parent
Unnecessarily harsh (Score:1)
The article simply reported a phenomenon that does exist. I have attended SATH shows since 1993 … and they are FUN. I personally thank Jose for doing what he does, and I hope he gives many more performances. Of course everyone is entitled to an opinion, but he doesn’t deserve this intense venom for providing a service that many seem to enjoy.
- doug
(User #360 Info)
Mejican Moz???... (Score:1)
(User #1816 Info)
my god this loser has finally lost it.... (Score:1)
like the saying goes...who is more the fool, the fool or they who follows the fool....I think somebody should through some flowers made of lead at his next show....
(User #155 Info)
Reg. a Sweet and Tender Person (Score:3, Interesting)
that I could no longer listen to their albums, and
refused to buy a Morrissey solo album in the following years. When a friend dragged me to my first Smith's convention in Pasadena in 1997, I saw the Sweet and Tender Hooligans for the first time. My jaw dropped when I saw Jose doing such a fine job taking on the skin of his hero, and singing the songs so beautifully and I thought, "My God, he's giving the Smiths back to me." It was truly moving. Since then, I have rarely missed a S.A.T.H. show and at Jose's insistence, started listening to Morrissey's solo
albums. Thanks to Jose, a whole new wonderful world of music was opened up to me. It is a fact that the band are wonderful musicians, playing Morrissey's music with dead-on precision, and Jose combines all the charismatic qualities of a great frontman with the aspects of great acting people tend to admire. He really does, for the time that he's on stage, portray the voice and physicality of Morrissey with striking accuracy. The way the fans respond is a beautiful thing to behold. They're simply acknowledging Jose's talent and ability to bring this music that we cherish to us in the best possible way. And it is true that Morrissey has seen a tape of one of their shows and was absolutely tickled pink that Jose does such a good job impersonating him. Morrissey went on stage at a show in Tempe Arizona
knowing that Jose was in the audience and said, "Good evening ladies and gentlemen, we're the Sweet and Tender Hooligans." Lastly, Jose is one of the most fiercely loyal people I have ever met. He loves his band members deeply and vowed years ago that if one member leaves, the band is over. The comment he made in the article horribly misrepresents his attitude toward the importance he personally places on each of his band mates. He is a truly kind and gentle soul, make no mistake. And come see a show if you can, so you can make you own mind up about their value to Smiths and Morrissey fans, instead of deriving
opinions from other people's negativity.
With no hard feelings toward anyone,
Angela K.
(User #1907 Info)
more questions than answers.... (Score:3, Informative)
But the main problem with this article is its attempts to explain the Hispanic following Morrissey and SATH have garnered. I think the identification with a first generation of immigrant parents thing is way off base. I don't think this theme is at all obvious in Morrissey's songs. I didn't know that fact about his parents until I read many articles about Morrissey, and maybe even the Rogan book. Maybe that's something the Hispanic fans can identify with later, after they have already invested a lot of time in Moz. But it certainly can't draw them to Morrissey.
I think the phenomenon is mostly the result of fashion. Where were these Hispanic fans in the late '80s, early '90s? There were plenty of Hispanic people in the LA area at that time. It wasn't until the Rockabilly/Retro '50s scene gathered momentum in L.A. that these fans emerged in large numbers. And perhaps their interest in Morrissey began as a result of their wanting to fit in with this scene, but nevertheless grew legitimate once they found out what Morrissey was all about. And that is why it's so hard to explain now.
What I find hard to take at the SATH shows (and LA Moz concerts, as well), with regard to the Hispanic fans, is the fact that many (not ALL) of this fan base act in what would seem like direct contradiction to what Morrissey is all about. The girls come barely dressed at all, as if they could only afford to buy half of a shirt and a skirt that is two sizes too small. They make out on the dance floor with their foul-mouthed corona-swilling boyfriends. A fight breaks out nearly every time SATH plays at the Brave Bull. Jose is on stage singing Morrissey's lyrics, "...then why are you on your own tonight?..." while the grease-pomped guy next to me sings along while groping his half-dressed girlfriend. I think it's these contradictory actions, and not the fact that they are Hispanic, that puts this fan base under such scrutiny. Not only that, but if there's one thing to say about Morrissey it's his (perhaps trite) characterization as a loner. But the male Hispanic Morrissey fans travel in packs. At one Morrissey concert, the hispanic guys in front of me were so concerned with what their friends were doing, they were barely paying attention to the show.
Well, anyway. I'm sure no one has read this far, and if you have, I'm sure you probably disagree with everything I've said. Everyone else is right, I'm always wrong, as usual! Whatever, who cares anyway?
(User #506 Info)
Re: Duran2, 3 ... yet again. (Score:2, Insightful)
I feel no particular animosity towards either DD or SB. DD did have (pardon, still have) more of a "dramatic persona" than SB, and are therefore so much more interesting.
But combining The Smiths with either one of them in one and the same show would give me heartburn. As would the combination of Michelle Shocked and Morrissey. But I quite like both of them.
Oh, do not walk gentle into that good off-topic night ...
Saudade,
AK
(User #1449 Info)
Parent
the first '3' score i agree with (Score:2, Insightful)
shelley:
where have you been?
thank-you for confirming my impressions of the current 'fashionable to be a morrissey (cover band) latino fan in los angeles' uprising (perhaps triggered in part by morrissey's moving to los angeles?).
something you have hit that is dead on in your response: the loss of a certain sort of understanding or at least heightened emotions about morrissey/the smiths. i think that if cover bands pique interest in new fans, that is fine..but you can see how people who adore the nucleus of such movements are downright offended when the inspired get confused with the inspiration.
someone praised this cover band for their "dead on precision"...if this means admiring their ability to reproduce the songs to scale then i think it is a bit (o.k. very) misguided. i think the reason most people aren't terribly fond of cover bands is because they rarely find create a threshold somewhere in-between carnage of a masterpiece and boring duplication of it. one must remember that there is no "printing press" for music and there is a reason for that: there shouldn't be one.
i have nothing against interpretation or cultivating a new fan base..but i do agree that it is a serious error to attribute the offspring of a movement to being equal to the movement itself. let's face it..unless it surpasses the original it may be nothing beyond mildly enjoyable/entertaining.
i think what may be forgotten here is the value of the songwriter/lyricist. simply presenting material without making a substantial contribution of yourself that stylistically changes things for the better classifies someone as an entertainer..the entertainer presents and entertains..the entertainer does not create. the artist does.
Morrissey is an artist. until this Jose dude and his band write some masterpiece poems/songs on their own i doubt i will be interested in them. until then, their followings can have 'em.
Allison
Parent
Re:more questions than answers.... (Score:2, Interesting)
(User #1884 Info)
Parent
Re:more questions than answers.... (Score:2, Insightful)
(User #762 Info)
Parent
Here we go again- (Score:2, Insightful)
The Smith's are over, done with, called it quits, let them rest in peace! This silly little singer thinking that he could possible replace Moz or even be slightly as exceptional as him (as a singer/performer) is an absolute embarrasment. An embarrasment that is to himself and everyone who swoons over him should be embarrassed as well. You want to hear the Smiths? Play a CD for crying out loud, don't go looking for them in someone else.
(User #1780 Info | http://www.geocities.com/ragry/rogr.htm)
break the news to him gently. (Score:1)
(User #1810 Info)
Jose (Score:1)
I wouldn't blame Jose at all for the reaction of the fans and I'm sure when he said the rest of the band didn't have to be there he was talking about the fact that the FOCUS of the "fans" are truely on him alone (he certainly couldn't go around with a guitar and sing MOz/Smiths songs by himself and book The Sitting Bull).
The reaction of the fans has almost nothing to do with the band...they are simply living vicariously(?) through them. I witnessed this first hand when the Salford Lads opend for TSATH back in May....the girls went just as crazy for their singer's retarded impression of Moz (terrible voice and horrendous "tribute").
If that's all they want since they're not old enough to go to a Moz concert by themselves or travel back in time to attend a Smiths concert, then who really gives a shit...sit back and enjoy it while it lasts....
P.S. To the Mexican chicks...please think twice before getting all of the Moz tattoos on your not so thin bodies...getting fatter over the years will only make them look worse...
(User #859 Info | http://www.4bangerjp.com/)
Re:Jose (Score:2, Funny)
(User #1780 Info | http://www.geocities.com/ragry/rogr.htm)
Parent
Jesus Christ! (Score:2, Insightful)
Jose is very kind to all his fans, and in numerous occasions tells the audiencce that they are paying homage to Moz, they aren't the real thing... neither do they want to be. They do shows for fun people, I myself are in everyone of those pictures. it just goes to show that Moz fans really do have a horrible side to them. Judging people they don't even know or heard. Just my 2 cents.
(User #263 Info | http://www.geocities.com/mammaryg/)
Mild moanings from NY's sexiest retard... (Score:2, Insightful)
And to MozMan68:
The reason you found my Moz impression retarded was probably due to the fact that I was not doing a Moz impression. The Lads never hoped to imitate The Smiths, not would I ever try to imitate the man. I am not Morrissey. I am not forty. I am not British or gay. Well... maybe I'm... British.
Come see what pop creation the Lads have since evolved into:
www.angelfire.com/pop/sadie
love,
jesse
Sadie
"Sexy music for sensitive people"
(User #1642 Info)
Message from Morrissey : HELP!!!!!!! (Score:0)
I have written many songs down here in my head. I know some day I will find a way to get out of here. You should know that this fraud is not me. I would never live in LA. England is and will always be HOME!!!!! Somebody please notify Scotland Yard!!!
If you can't say anything nice... then SHUT UP! (Score:2, Insightful)
Someone wrote that Morrissey is an artist, because he writes and performs his own work. Well, I guess only true SATH fans know that they do have an LP cut called The Floral Spectacle. It is music that they wrote and perfomed themselves. Let me guess, now someone will give another reason as to why they don't consider Jose a true artist.
I honestly wonder how many people who are saying all this stuff(for lack of a better term) really know Jose, or any other band members for that matter. I know Jose, he is a dear friend to me and I truly enjoy what he does. I think the best part is that HE enjoys what he does. He, and everyone else in the band have real jobs, this is not their sole source of income. They don't HAVE to do this. They do it because the want to. It's so sad that they are doing this of their own free will, and now being critisized and shot down for it. For all those people who want to critisize their talent, there is a place in hell for you and your friends. If ignorance is bliss... you all must be VERY happy.
(User #425 Info)
enough is enough (Score:2, Insightful)
why is there this unexplainable hatred towards them?
the hooligans are a cover band, and have many times claim themselves to be one... and it really defeats the purpose of a cover band when they are constantly being compared to the original. And as a cover band.. their title is to cover smiths/morrissey however they please... why should they be compared to the original when they are simply not? bands that play their own material is one thing and bands that cover other bands is another. there is a strong difference. and a whole a different story.. people with admirations for cover bands usually admire the “music” that is being played live.. and they are very aware that it is not the orginal.. the sound of live music that emulates the orginal is what being appreciated..even morrissey himself do covers of other songs that he once loved.. i dont see why there is such a big deal out of this.. emulated music is still music... with different variations to it or or strikingly similar to it....and just becuase it doesn’t sound anything like the original.. it doesn’t mean that it’s not enjoyable..
people who attend sath shows are just people who love their coverband for doing an excellent job in reproducing the sound of the smiths/morrissey.. they are there for the appreciation of the music and they are there to express themselves in whatever way they please.. even if it means climbing on stage to give jose a hug.. really....so what? and the people who are there for other reasons such as the rockabilly look or the greasers.. still mumbles to the smiths/morrissey tune while enjoying themselves in the crowd.. have every right to do so .. because there really are no rules when it comes to love and appreciation of something you really like.. just as long as you dont step on anyone elses toes.
(User #1763 Info)
A Humble Interpretation: (Score:1, Insightful)
Poor Unfortunate Souls (Score:0, Redundant)
i am tired of this (Score:0, Redundant)
P.S. To the fans in the Sweet and tender pics you also make me sick!! Flocking all over a nobody like he is Morrissey. If you want to gloat over Moz, sit in your rooms and listen to your Moz CD’s. Lord knows you haven't the slightest clue of who the Smith's were so I know you don't own any of their CD's. But anyway sit down and build a shrine to Morrissey and pray to his poster asking for guidance and redemption and maybe just maybe you will by some miracle become saved from your ignorance!!!
My 5 Commandments... (Score:2, Interesting)
1) SATH took a Smiths song name and used it for their band (lacking both respect, and creativity).
2) If the Smiths would have never been, SATH would not exist.
3) SATH profits from the Morrissey/Smiths name (if they do have an album, the only people buying it are people looking so desperately to buy anything having to do with Morrissey, or just the band's family members or friends) - the same people buying their material are the same ones making it nearly impossible to find movies like 'The Leatherboys' or 'A Taste of Honey'.
4) SATH are trying very hard to be the Smiths (if they weren't, as they say, their front-man would not dress like, grow the burns like, or imitate Morrissey's effeminate gestures - they would just play the songs...I would personally respect them more if they were called The Mendoza's and played Smiths tunes-without the 'Morrissey' getup).
5) Oh...and when Morrissey 'covers' another band's song...he does it with his OWN singing voice (if I recall correctly, morrissey never sounded like TREX, Mancini...etc...etc...etc... )
(User #1816 Info)
Re: 5 commandments and a new quiz (Score:2, Insightful)
1)
2)
3)
4)
5)
ah. right. Thanks for reminding.
Part Two. The quiz.
1) name at least two titles of Smiths/Morrissey albums that were "borrowed" (try "Louder than bombs" and "Strangeways here we come", "Kill Uncle", "Bona Drag"?)
2) name at least two bands Morrissey covered a song of, and without whom he may not have survived his early burglary years (audience shouting "T Rex", "the New York Dolls", "David Bowie")
3) name at least two icons Morrissey actively "impersonated" and/or referred to (ah, easy, "James Dean", "Oscar Wilde", "Richard Davalos", "Shelagh Delaney", "Sandie Shaw")
4) how original is Moz on stage? (hint from the quizmaster: think of a mix between Elvis and Jobriath, with Iggy Popesque spoliations and mike-magic)
5) and the final one ... tata .. how well did Henry Mancini sing?
Well I'll be damned! To be Mexican would really be a relief! Viva "Mosé"! Olé.
(User #1449 Info)
Parent
You soak a chicken in scalding water before... (Score:1, Insightful)
So many anonymous posters...complaining the loudest. Like they say in the Army, "no one cares if your p*ssy hurts."
(User #81 Info | http://hometown.aol.com/eltororojosd)
What's wrong with this site? (Score:0)
Hatful of Hallow (Score:2, Interesting)
Although we all know Morrissey's "tongue-in-cheek" and sometimes sarcastic personality, the comment "it's like I am looking in the mirror" concerns me. Can we get him fit for new contact lenses?
Since fans of cover bands don't know any better, should we warn the John Lennon guy in the Beatles cover bands to watch out for those chubby male fans wearing a Jody Foster t-shirt?
Jose came across with such an arrogant attitude it is no wonder the Morrissey-Solo crowd have come out swinging. You reap what you sow.
The "journalist" who wrote this story did a very poor job trying to convey whatever the hell he was trying to convey. Does anyone know? Did Jose talk to him about making this a band article or was it aimed directly towards his ego?
Jose should be embarrassed that the only comments about his mates was that they are basically part of the furniture, and that no one would mind or even notice had any of them imploded on stage.
If anyone has any clue what "The man who would be Morrissey" is supposed to mean please shed some light? Morrissey is much much much more than a haircut, a fine pair of levi's and some doc martens. He has written some of the best lyrics ever.
So how can a person who tries to shadow his every move on stage be the next Morrissey? Last time I checked Jose and his band have not written or released any original material that captivates a listener the way Morrissey has. So let's give credit where credit is due.
It is a shame the LA Times could not have printed an article about Morrissey which I am more than positive would not have included silly stories about how he is the center of his musical friends and what a close call it was leaving a show when excited fans mobbed him. Morrissey shows restraint when talking about himself, as well as an appreciation of others(including band members both past and present) both practices Jose should have exercised.
(User #1113 Info)
i can't get my head around any of it (Score:3, Interesting)
can you believe there are as of this moment 92 posts concerning a cover band?
Now, I wasn't really around to cry over the Smith's disentigration back in 1987, and I can't claim an unresolved void by their demise, but I know the fucking difference between Morrissey and Jose Maldonado. I would not jump on a plane to see SATH perform in the middle of Timbuktu, nor would I expend the time and gas money to drive down the road if they popped up in my neighborhood. I don't give a damn about what Jose thinks about the state of the world. I don't care if he stayed in hiding for 3 years and didn't bother finding a label or releasing any material.
It's nothing personal. He's done nothing to change my life, and I think it's bad that people are flinging themselves at him and the band when all of those hugs are really meant for some guy holed up in his mansion in LA. And it's even worse when Jose truly thinks those hugs are meant for him. If he wants to see how many of those hugs are meant for him, he should try an evening of nothing but his own material and in his own style.
So what if the band trained a Julliard? I can tell you right now that many classically trained people just don't have the soul for rock.
(User #36 Info)
Re:i can't get my head around any of it (Score:2, Insightful)
I think José knows very well what part he's playing in this comedy - and why blame an actor for wanting to be convincing?
The article I guess tries to portray the swings of mood of the Mexico-American Morrissey followers. If José Maldonado and Co are indeed hauled in as heroes by parts of this audience, it's imperative to cover that topic as well.
I haven't met the guy, but from what he seems to be saying in the papers (assuming he's quoted correctly), he's rather aware of his in-between status. And I would take it as no offence if Morrissey fans hug José - if he does a good job at performing Morrissey, one may as well appreciate that.
All in all, I believe WE are led astray if we interpret this whole thing as JM promoting himself for his own personal interest. If there's promoting indeed, he's promoting the "Oye" side of Morrissey-followers, and Morrissey himself.
You're right, classically trained musicians generally find it hard to cope with rock's versatility. But those who can, should be encouraged. And anyone able to do a neat and perfect rendition of "Girl Afraid" on a guitar deserves appreciation. For the technical skills. Are they "true" artists? I guess only inasmuch as someone who makes a normal ashtray in clay could be considered a real artist. There's craftmanship, and then there's artistic expression. Both are valuable, in a different way.
But that's again only an opinion.
(User #1449 Info)
Parent
if you really want to be MORRISSEY (Score:0)
favorite Music
1) The Petshop Boys
2) Morrissey / The Smiths
3) Bjork (even though I listen to her most of the time now)
"And I my lord, my I say nothing...."
Journalists who lie (Score:1)
(User #154 Info)
i can't find where it was said... (Score:1)
Full page, hot looking pic of Moz in lame and accompanied by a nice article about how Your Arsenal was ignored because of the imaginary controversy.
Well, obviously not imaginary as some people made the stunt of burning some of his albums in front of his label's office a week after Finsbury Park, but you know what I mean.
This is indeed a stunning breakthrough over the years and years and years of us hearing how the british journalists universally hate him. Why hasn't anyone said much of anything? Would everyone like to read again that Morrissey was used as an answer in a TV gameshow? I can't figure out the scale of importance around here.
True, it's not as shocking as the NME actually standing up and saying their sorry, but at least there is someone willing to stand up and say something. As far as I can see, Uncut has been much kinder to the Smiths/Johnny Marr/Morrissey legacy than most newspapers have anywhere. I mean, this is analysis, folks. Not some retread about how the Smiths were about the lonely daffodil anoraks cowering under pilfered copies of The Importance of Being Earnest, being too afraid to see the sunlight lest their eyes become singed from their overly large-prescription NHS glasses burning UV rays into their retinas.
(User #36 Info)
think about it this way... (Score:1)
(User #1810 Info)
Exploiting Morrissey (Score:0)
Hey kids!... (Score:1)
(User #1816 Info)
Who gives a fuck about Jose!! (Score:0)
I wonder what the Moz thinks about all this??
Redundancy bites (Score:1)
P.S. By the way clones, i'm getting sick and tired of your emails from "Ricky Martin", "Desi Arnaz", "Tito Puente" and "Mana". Some of these guys aren't even Mexican, they have nothing to do with this!
(User #720 Info | http://www.jimrome.com/)
Living La Vida Loca (Score:1)
Sincerly,
Ricky Martin
(User #720 Info | http://www.jimrome.com/)
Mexicans and Morrissey (Score:0)
Also, I've met the singer for Sweet and Tender Hooligans a few times, at a Morrissey/Smiths convention, he had no arrogance towards anybody and sang with a reverence only haters could be very, very JEALOUS of. He also showed up at a friends party to sing a few songs and kick back with people who he's known and wanted to say Happy Birthday too, even though he's not being paid to sing. And also, he played beautiful acoustic versions of ASK, Now my Heart is Full and Suedehead and I can say any fan could only dream of hearing Morrissey in person and acoustic to bring the full beauty of Morrissey music the way he can.
You are all Racists! (All CAPS) (Score:0)
Soy la Mamá de Jose: (Score:0)
You call yourselves Morrissey fans! (Score:0)