posted by davidt on Monday November 20 2000, @11:00AM
tina writes:

In the Nov. 19 L.A. Times Magazine [it comes with the Sunday paper] there is an article called "The Wizards of Moz". It talks about the many Latino fans of Morrissey. I haven't read it all yet. I just got really excited when I saw it.

Link to the article at latimes.com from suedehead:

"The Wizards Of Moz" by David Lott
For the Many Latino Fans of the Enigmatic Morrissey, Jose Maldonado and the Sweet and Tender Hooligans Are a Lifeline to Their Hero.
Scans of the photographs from the article, taken by Marcos Lujan:
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  • what jose and the guys do is great and i have to give them credit for that...thier shows kick ass and they do give us a chance to hear a great re-enactment (key word here!) of the Smiths and Moz. to call jose the Mexican Morrissey is just wrong, there is only one great and that is MOZ himself. whats really twisted is how chicks at the shows praise Jose like if he were the man himself... jose's got talent but let's snap out of it now ... the smiths are dead.
    ilovemoz -- Monday November 20 2000, @11:37AM (#4830)
    (User #1720 Info)
    "Rejection is one thing, but rejection from a fool is cruel"
  • A direct quote from this horrendous little article:

    "When I'm covering Morrissey, all eyes really are on me," says [Jose] Maldonado. "If we had to replace anybody in the band other than myself, I don't know if they would be missed."

    What an ego on this counterfeit. It took me a full 2 hours to stop laughing after I read this bit from the article. Who in this hell does this karoke singer think he is? This reproduction band is really only getting attention because their "fans" like the clothes, the hairstyles, the sexual ambiguity (males only), and the fact that cruising is now illegal in most parts of Los Angeles.

    eugenius -- Monday November 20 2000, @12:08PM (#4834)
    (User #1665 Info | http://www.cherryplucker.com/)
    I'm almost sure you can do better than that.
  • ...oh well, maybe I*m just too non-american to understand this, but to me this seems totally, utterly embarrassing and useless.
    elsberry -- Monday November 20 2000, @12:13PM (#4835)
    (User #418 Info | http://www.leavemealoneiwasonlysinging.not/)
    +++ Of all of the fuckups that I do, I saved the best one for you +++
  • unless the person is dead,what is the point?even if the person is dead watch the video!!
    Anonymous -- Monday November 20 2000, @12:26PM (#4837)
  • jose (Score:0, Flamebait)

    jose looks lame. lame lame lame. get over it buddy, you'll never replace him.
    Ryan -- Monday November 20 2000, @01:22PM (#4840)
    (User #482 Info)
  • hang him in T.J.
    hang him in T.J.
    hang him in T.J. in tj in tj in th........
    Guilt By Implication -- Monday November 20 2000, @01:57PM (#4844)
    (User #429 Info)
  • ~~The band was such a hit that at the second Morrissey convention in 1993, at the Hollywood Florentine Gardens, Maldonado had to be escorted out by a security guard after the show. "There were so many fanatical fans who wanted my autograph," Maldonado says. "I realized then either I'm really good at this or they're doing a great job impersonating fans. That's when I became a pseudo-celebrity." ~~
             
          Well I was a few People in front of him in line At the Hollywood siging and not one person seemed to notice him. I give the guy alot of credit For having a good( So ive heard) cover band, I mean I've never seen them myself. But All I can say is.. Many can try to impersonate Morrissey but none will succeed :-p It's also hilarious how it said people storm the stage to give him hugs.. I myself Has tried getting on stage At a Morrissey show and Thought I must have been crazy afterwards. That is something I would only do for the man himself!
    Crystal -- Monday November 20 2000, @02:09PM (#4846)
    (User #1644 Info)
    " You might be depressed but you're remarkably dressed and that's all you need"
    • Re:amen sistaJose sounds like Kermit the Frog-not by ladymoz (Score:1) Monday November 20 2000, @05:50PM
      • I LOVE my "god forsaken website." I put a lot of time and effort into it. If you don't like it, so be it. "Crowd of useless brown flesh." Hmm..that's pretty intelligent. When I go to SATH shows, I go to dance and sing along to the songs, as well as see my friends perform on stage. The fact that I am 'brown' has nothing to do with it.

        I love Morrissey with all my heart, as I'm sure as most of the people that frequent this site do. You have no right to judge just how big of a fan I am based on my SATH show attendance.

        Goodnight and Thank you.
        ladymoz -- Tuesday November 21 2000, @03:51PM (#4905)
        (User #154 Info)
      • racist scum (Score:2, Insightful)

        what a coward. of course you would post anonymously with such filth.

        your "useless brown flesh" comment sickened me. how can you possibly post something like that in a public forum?

        YOU are the useless one, with your tainted soul so clearly full of hate, prejudice & ignorance.
        carlos -- Tuesday November 21 2000, @10:03PM (#4915)
        (User #1308 Info | http://www.facebook.com/djceremony)
        "This world may lack style, I know..."
        • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
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  • I am a surprised by the harshness of these attacks – but such is the empowerment of anonymity ...

    The article simply reported a phenomenon that does exist. I have attended SATH shows since 1993 … and they are FUN. I personally thank Jose for doing what he does, and I hope he gives many more performances. Of course everyone is entitled to an opinion, but he doesn’t deserve this intense venom for providing a service that many seem to enjoy.

    - doug
    suedehead -- Monday November 20 2000, @08:14PM (#4859)
    (User #360 Info)
  • Well, from the pics, I would say: "who are these people catapulting themselves to J-O-S-E-?-? Doesn't everybody know that Morrissey just done the guy a favor by lying to him? (like he really even looks like him...I think he served me up a taco in T.J. the other night!) I read the article, and me/myself, being of Mexican descent, can assure you that Mexican/Americans can not even be compared to the Irish, or their upbringing...the IRA would have a field day with this virgin LA Times reporter...This whole mess just reminds one of "EL VEZ"...impersonators like these just give Mexicans a bad image...it's childish and it's silly...Jose- "Just keep it to dedicating a Smiths song to a loved one at your local Karaoke bar." Love To You!
    HNSMDVL1 -- Monday November 20 2000, @09:05PM (#4860)
    (User #1816 Info)
  • clown, moron, bombastic simpleton, flamboyant impersonator. but i still think that the girls up front are more ridiculous than he.
      like the saying goes...who is more the fool, the fool or they who follows the fool....I think somebody should through some flowers made of lead at his next show....
    shoplifter -- Tuesday November 21 2000, @12:19AM (#4866)
    (User #155 Info)
  • When the Smith's broke up in 1987, I was so upset
    that I could no longer listen to their albums, and
    refused to buy a Morrissey solo album in the following years. When a friend dragged me to my first Smith's convention in Pasadena in 1997, I saw the Sweet and Tender Hooligans for the first time. My jaw dropped when I saw Jose doing such a fine job taking on the skin of his hero, and singing the songs so beautifully and I thought, "My God, he's giving the Smiths back to me." It was truly moving. Since then, I have rarely missed a S.A.T.H. show and at Jose's insistence, started listening to Morrissey's solo
    albums. Thanks to Jose, a whole new wonderful world of music was opened up to me. It is a fact that the band are wonderful musicians, playing Morrissey's music with dead-on precision, and Jose combines all the charismatic qualities of a great frontman with the aspects of great acting people tend to admire. He really does, for the time that he's on stage, portray the voice and physicality of Morrissey with striking accuracy. The way the fans respond is a beautiful thing to behold. They're simply acknowledging Jose's talent and ability to bring this music that we cherish to us in the best possible way. And it is true that Morrissey has seen a tape of one of their shows and was absolutely tickled pink that Jose does such a good job impersonating him. Morrissey went on stage at a show in Tempe Arizona
    knowing that Jose was in the audience and said, "Good evening ladies and gentlemen, we're the Sweet and Tender Hooligans." Lastly, Jose is one of the most fiercely loyal people I have ever met. He loves his band members deeply and vowed years ago that if one member leaves, the band is over. The comment he made in the article horribly misrepresents his attitude toward the importance he personally places on each of his band mates. He is a truly kind and gentle soul, make no mistake. And come see a show if you can, so you can make you own mind up about their value to Smiths and Morrissey fans, instead of deriving
    opinions from other people's negativity.

                    With no hard feelings toward anyone,
                                                                              Angela K.
    Angela K. -- Tuesday November 21 2000, @12:21AM (#4867)
    (User #1907 Info)
  • Well, first of all, I think it's a shame that Jose was quoted as saying any member of the band could be replaced and no one would notice. I hope to god he was misquoted on this or at least taken out of context. Although I don't know Jose very well, every time I have talked to him he has nothing but great things to say about his band; for example, how lucky he is to have Dave and Jeff, what a great bass player Lee is, etc. I hope that what he meant to say was that these "fans" focus too much on him and they don't give the band enough credit. Which is what I believe is the truth. I think Dave and Jeff pretty much make the band as most of their renditions of these songs sound almost as good as Morrissey's current band could play (except for the songs with the keyboards--but that's just my own issue). Anyway, Jose has a great voice, but it really doesn't sound too much like Morrissey. And the girls who get on stage and try to hump Jose's leg just ruin the show for the rest of us who aren't so desperate for attention. Regardless, SATH isn't a bad way to spend a Friday night.
          But the main problem with this article is its attempts to explain the Hispanic following Morrissey and SATH have garnered. I think the identification with a first generation of immigrant parents thing is way off base. I don't think this theme is at all obvious in Morrissey's songs. I didn't know that fact about his parents until I read many articles about Morrissey, and maybe even the Rogan book. Maybe that's something the Hispanic fans can identify with later, after they have already invested a lot of time in Moz. But it certainly can't draw them to Morrissey.
          I think the phenomenon is mostly the result of fashion. Where were these Hispanic fans in the late '80s, early '90s? There were plenty of Hispanic people in the LA area at that time. It wasn't until the Rockabilly/Retro '50s scene gathered momentum in L.A. that these fans emerged in large numbers. And perhaps their interest in Morrissey began as a result of their wanting to fit in with this scene, but nevertheless grew legitimate once they found out what Morrissey was all about. And that is why it's so hard to explain now.
          What I find hard to take at the SATH shows (and LA Moz concerts, as well), with regard to the Hispanic fans, is the fact that many (not ALL) of this fan base act in what would seem like direct contradiction to what Morrissey is all about. The girls come barely dressed at all, as if they could only afford to buy half of a shirt and a skirt that is two sizes too small. They make out on the dance floor with their foul-mouthed corona-swilling boyfriends. A fight breaks out nearly every time SATH plays at the Brave Bull. Jose is on stage singing Morrissey's lyrics, "...then why are you on your own tonight?..." while the grease-pomped guy next to me sings along while groping his half-dressed girlfriend. I think it's these contradictory actions, and not the fact that they are Hispanic, that puts this fan base under such scrutiny. Not only that, but if there's one thing to say about Morrissey it's his (perhaps trite) characterization as a loner. But the male Hispanic Morrissey fans travel in packs. At one Morrissey concert, the hispanic guys in front of me were so concerned with what their friends were doing, they were barely paying attention to the show.
    Well, anyway. I'm sure no one has read this far, and if you have, I'm sure you probably disagree with everything I've said. Everyone else is right, I'm always wrong, as usual! Whatever, who cares anyway?
    shelley -- Tuesday November 21 2000, @12:37AM (#4868)
    (User #506 Info)
    • Re:more questions than answers.... by mozhoney (Score:1) Tuesday November 21 2000, @01:15AM
    • Re:more questions than answers.... by An Klestar (Score:1) Tuesday November 21 2000, @04:17AM
      • Duran Duran by Anonymous (Score:0) Wednesday November 22 2000, @04:37PM
        • Re:Duran Duran by An Klestar (Score:1) Thursday November 23 2000, @01:09AM
          • Re:Duran Duran by Anonymous (Score:0) Thursday November 23 2000, @05:33PM
            • Re:Duran Duran by Anonymous (Score:0) Thursday November 23 2000, @05:54PM
              • no dismissal intended.
                I feel no particular animosity towards either DD or SB. DD did have (pardon, still have) more of a "dramatic persona" than SB, and are therefore so much more interesting.
                But combining The Smiths with either one of them in one and the same show would give me heartburn. As would the combination of Michelle Shocked and Morrissey. But I quite like both of them.

                Oh, do not walk gentle into that good off-topic night ...

                Saudade,
                AK
                An Klestar -- Friday November 24 2000, @12:05AM (#4985)
                (User #1449 Info)
              • Lovely, that'll do. by Anonymous (Score:0) Friday November 24 2000, @06:21AM
    • shelley:

      where have you been?

      thank-you for confirming my impressions of the current 'fashionable to be a morrissey (cover band) latino fan in los angeles' uprising (perhaps triggered in part by morrissey's moving to los angeles?).

      something you have hit that is dead on in your response: the loss of a certain sort of understanding or at least heightened emotions about morrissey/the smiths. i think that if cover bands pique interest in new fans, that is fine..but you can see how people who adore the nucleus of such movements are downright offended when the inspired get confused with the inspiration.

      someone praised this cover band for their "dead on precision"...if this means admiring their ability to reproduce the songs to scale then i think it is a bit (o.k. very) misguided. i think the reason most people aren't terribly fond of cover bands is because they rarely find create a threshold somewhere in-between carnage of a masterpiece and boring duplication of it. one must remember that there is no "printing press" for music and there is a reason for that: there shouldn't be one.

      i have nothing against interpretation or cultivating a new fan base..but i do agree that it is a serious error to attribute the offspring of a movement to being equal to the movement itself. let's face it..unless it surpasses the original it may be nothing beyond mildly enjoyable/entertaining.

      i think what may be forgotten here is the value of the songwriter/lyricist. simply presenting material without making a substantial contribution of yourself that stylistically changes things for the better classifies someone as an entertainer..the entertainer presents and entertains..the entertainer does not create. the artist does.

      Morrissey is an artist. until this Jose dude and his band write some masterpiece poems/songs on their own i doubt i will be interested in them. until then, their followings can have 'em.

      Allison

      Anonymous -- Tuesday November 21 2000, @06:30AM (#4882)
    • I totally agree with just about everything you have said. And to add , after the show, you'll find them eating a hamburger or some other meat laden meal at the local 24hour hangout. And for the record, I am hispanic; I have listened to Morrissey since I was 15 (my first album was Meat is Murder), I am alone and don't eat meat and I have very few friends. In a million years I would never ever pay to see a tribute band. Why should I when Morrissey is still alive? I love Morrissey, but I don't sport a pompadour and Levis 24/7. This is why I don't understand this wave of hispanic Moz fans. I agree with shelly. My first concert I ever went to was a Moz one (Your Arsenal tour in 92, Del Mar Fairgrounds)and I don't recall seeing any Mex Moz fans. Now there are soooo many, it makes me sad. It makes me sad because I feel that many of these "fans" love themselves more than they do another human being. They probably own only 3 Moz/Smith albums. Looks are more important to most of these "fans" than the music/lyrics themselves. I am saying all of these things because I have seen them first hand and I stray away from such "followers". Well, actually, I stray from pretty much about everyone, but thats besides the point. I am true to Moz. In my own strange way, I've slways been true to him, and myself. I wish these "fans" would finally wake up and grow up and do the same. But I do love all of you.
      morrisseywilde -- Tuesday November 21 2000, @08:40AM (#4884)
      (User #1884 Info)
    • shelley, your right on the money! by Anonymous (Score:0) Tuesday November 21 2000, @09:48AM
    • I understand what you are saying, but there is one thing I don't agree with. When you ask where were these people back in the late 80's/early 90's? They were there. I can't speak for the days of The Smiths in the 80's, because I was only 11 when they broke up, but I do remember the first time I went to see him play in 91' at The Forum in LA. There was a huge amount of hispanic people in the audience, and I was so amazed by this, since this was the first time I had ever been around the Moz following. A lot of the hispanic "Goth" girls of course, but many of the so-called rebel scene, which by the way are just as irritating now as they were then. I was truly amazed because during my jr. high years, and first part of high school, that crowd had only been known for house parties, and bad dance music(Meaning "Bad" dance music). By the time Moz came and played next year at The Hollywood Bowl, this whole phenomonon(sp?) was in full swing. A huge percent of the rockabilly crowd was also hispanic, and I'm talking about real ones, not greased out rebel party crews. So this part of Morrissey's audience has always been around, at least in his solo days. Unfortunately, I know why this happened only as much as you do.
      Sharron Needles -- Tuesday November 21 2000, @01:44PM (#4903)
      (User #762 Info)
      Inside every adult male is a denied little boy -Nancy Friday
    • Re:more questions than answers.... by Anonymous (Score:0) Wednesday November 22 2000, @02:00PM
  • Here we go again- (Score:2, Insightful)

    With the "mexicans and Moz". Who cares if they are mexican?! They are people, regular people, it's time the media should stop putting a label on people. Anyhow, the band hasn't enough talent of their own that they have to try to make a living off "reliving" the Smiths' music?? Why speak of them anyhow?

    The Smith's are over, done with, called it quits, let them rest in peace! This silly little singer thinking that he could possible replace Moz or even be slightly as exceptional as him (as a singer/performer) is an absolute embarrasment. An embarrasment that is to himself and everyone who swoons over him should be embarrassed as well. You want to hear the Smiths? Play a CD for crying out loud, don't go looking for them in someone else.
    ShielaTakingABow <[email protected]> -- Tuesday November 21 2000, @02:49AM (#4873)
    (User #1780 Info | http://www.geocities.com/ragry/rogr.htm)
    "We´re all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars" OW
  • A lemon sole so very high, which only reminds me...
    Passing Kijowski <[email protected]> -- Tuesday November 21 2000, @03:04AM (#4877)
    (User #1810 Info)
    So how can you call this a home, when you know it's a grave? But can you SING, Verrechia?
  • First of all...what's with the waitress coming out the back door??? Bringing some drinks to her family?

    I wouldn't blame Jose at all for the reaction of the fans and I'm sure when he said the rest of the band didn't have to be there he was talking about the fact that the FOCUS of the "fans" are truely on him alone (he certainly couldn't go around with a guitar and sing MOz/Smiths songs by himself and book The Sitting Bull).

    The reaction of the fans has almost nothing to do with the band...they are simply living vicariously(?) through them. I witnessed this first hand when the Salford Lads opend for TSATH back in May....the girls went just as crazy for their singer's retarded impression of Moz (terrible voice and horrendous "tribute").

    If that's all they want since they're not old enough to go to a Moz concert by themselves or travel back in time to attend a Smiths concert, then who really gives a shit...sit back and enjoy it while it lasts....

    P.S. To the Mexican chicks...please think twice before getting all of the Moz tattoos on your not so thin bodies...getting fatter over the years will only make them look worse...

    MozMan68 <{mozman68} {at} {gmail.com}> -- Tuesday November 21 2000, @06:19AM (#4881)
    (User #859 Info | http://www.4bangerjp.com/)
    Cryin' 'bout the booty, t'aint gonna do no good...
    • Re:Jose (Score:2, Funny)

      To the mexican chicks?? I am sure it isn't only them getting Moz tattoos on their bodies! But you have a point here so I will emphasize it a little more. Getting a Moz tattoo on your body is just silly! Not only will he grow along with your body, he will stretch and sag and become "old" with your body! HAHA I would love to see someone's tattoo of Moz forty years down the road, that's going to be a funny site to see.
      ShielaTakingABow <[email protected]> -- Tuesday November 21 2000, @09:33AM (#4887)
      (User #1780 Info | http://www.geocities.com/ragry/rogr.htm)
      "We´re all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars" OW
      • Re:Jose by Anonymous (Score:0) Tuesday November 21 2000, @07:00PM
  • Jesus Christ! (Score:2, Insightful)

    All I can say in this whole matter of the article is that it is simply not quoted correctly. Jose can't go on without his band. At the last show at the Roxy, Lee the Bass Player did not show up. So they had a substitute, it was Jeff's little brother. Needless to say Jose was not all there without Lee, he was dissapointed and that's why the show ended so early. He could not go on playing without Lee.

    Jose is very kind to all his fans, and in numerous occasions tells the audiencce that they are paying homage to Moz, they aren't the real thing... neither do they want to be. They do shows for fun people, I myself are in everyone of those pictures. it just goes to show that Moz fans really do have a horrible side to them. Judging people they don't even know or heard. Just my 2 cents.

    moz_head_2000 <[email protected]> -- Tuesday November 21 2000, @11:22AM (#4889)
    (User #263 Info | http://www.geocities.com/mammaryg/)
    Sleep On And Dream Of Love, Because It's The Closest Thing I'll Get To Love....
  • If Jose suffers from anything, it is from a pop obsession so pure, it could be sniffed in the grittiest of NY clubs. He's just a fan paying his own homage to everyone's favorite homo, and deserves a little respect from all of us.
              And to MozMan68:
              The reason you found my Moz impression retarded was probably due to the fact that I was not doing a Moz impression. The Lads never hoped to imitate The Smiths, not would I ever try to imitate the man. I am not Morrissey. I am not forty. I am not British or gay. Well... maybe I'm... British.
            Come see what pop creation the Lads have since evolved into:
    www.angelfire.com/pop/sadie

    love,
    jesse

    Sadie
    "Sexy music for sensitive people"
    sadie -- Tuesday November 21 2000, @11:34AM (#4890)
    (User #1642 Info)
  • I do not have much time. After the Your Arsenal tour I was kidnapped in early 1993 by my evil twin brother MOZ. He has kept me locked in a basement for almost 8 years and he has taken over my life. I am trapped somewhere in England. I know that he has taken over my career as well. Any Morrissey music that followed Your Arsenal was not written by me. Don't buy it!!! It is pure rubbish and is not me. I have not changed.
    I have written many songs down here in my head. I know some day I will find a way to get out of here. You should know that this fraud is not me. I would never live in LA. England is and will always be HOME!!!!! Somebody please notify Scotland Yard!!!
    Anonymous -- Tuesday November 21 2000, @12:41PM (#4893)
  • I am so tired of hearing the negative comments about Jose, what he does and says. Did anyone ever stop to think that the writer of this article used only some of his words, and didn't quote his entire comment?

        Someone wrote that Morrissey is an artist, because he writes and performs his own work. Well, I guess only true SATH fans know that they do have an LP cut called The Floral Spectacle. It is music that they wrote and perfomed themselves. Let me guess, now someone will give another reason as to why they don't consider Jose a true artist.

        I honestly wonder how many people who are saying all this stuff(for lack of a better term) really know Jose, or any other band members for that matter. I know Jose, he is a dear friend to me and I truly enjoy what he does. I think the best part is that HE enjoys what he does. He, and everyone else in the band have real jobs, this is not their sole source of income. They don't HAVE to do this. They do it because the want to. It's so sad that they are doing this of their own free will, and now being critisized and shot down for it. For all those people who want to critisize their talent, there is a place in hell for you and your friends. If ignorance is bliss... you all must be VERY happy.

    luckylisp11 -- Tuesday November 21 2000, @04:27PM (#4907)
    (User #425 Info)
    I want the one I can't have....
  • enough is enough (Score:2, Insightful)

    it’s strange how some people on here are so quick to bad mouth sath. .. and at the same time...presenting very little reasons or explanations to why they’re doing so..

    why is there this unexplainable hatred towards them?

    the hooligans are a cover band, and have many times claim themselves to be one... and it really defeats the purpose of a cover band when they are constantly being compared to the original. And as a cover band.. their title is to cover smiths/morrissey however they please... why should they be compared to the original when they are simply not? bands that play their own material is one thing and bands that cover other bands is another. there is a strong difference. and a whole a different story.. people with admirations for cover bands usually admire the “music” that is being played live.. and they are very aware that it is not the orginal.. the sound of live music that emulates the orginal is what being appreciated..even morrissey himself do covers of other songs that he once loved.. i dont see why there is such a big deal out of this.. emulated music is still music... with different variations to it or or strikingly similar to it....and just becuase it doesn’t sound anything like the original.. it doesn’t mean that it’s not enjoyable..

    people who attend sath shows are just people who love their coverband for doing an excellent job in reproducing the sound of the smiths/morrissey.. they are there for the appreciation of the music and they are there to express themselves in whatever way they please.. even if it means climbing on stage to give jose a hug.. really....so what? and the people who are there for other reasons such as the rockabilly look or the greasers.. still mumbles to the smiths/morrissey tune while enjoying themselves in the crowd.. have every right to do so .. because there really are no rules when it comes to love and appreciation of something you really like.. just as long as you dont step on anyone elses toes.
    nhon -- Tuesday November 21 2000, @04:36PM (#4909)
    (User #1763 Info)
  • I do not wish to elaborate on what cover bands are. I believe that all those who have presented an opinion within this forum understand what that is. I cannot conceive for the life of me, how clever witty Morrissey fans could blur the lines between an original artist and a tribute band. I believe the fire, was started by the light in which this article was portrayed. Which brings me to the following: has anyone considered the possibility that maybe Jose’s words were skewed? I cannot vouch for Jose, as I do not know him personally, but I do understand the manipulation of words for propaganda. Lastly, I’d like to touch on the damnification of this new wave of Mexican American fans for the way they dress. The exhibition of greaser/rockabilly mode has strong parallels to that of drapes for the 1940s Pachuco. Octavio Paz regarding Chicanos & the Zoot Suit, “Su disfraz lo protégé y, al mismo tiempo lo destaca y aisla: lo oculta y lo exhibe”. There are certain dynamics hidden behind clothing that can be attributed to culture and border duality, that should be consider when bringing about such vulgar attacks. I agree that this new wave of fans is in no way what Smiths fans were in the 80s. However, I don’t believe it’s fair to label them as pure fad followers, incapable of understanding what The Smiths & Morrissey stand for. Authenticity lies in the heart. If their desire for Morrissey is sufficed momentarily by the crooning of The Sweet and Tender Hooligans, this does not mean they are not as devoted as others. Why should we be so trivial and narrow-minded?
    Anonymous -- Tuesday November 21 2000, @06:59PM (#4912)
  • SATH is just a cover band. Jose thinks he is Morrissey and he is totally wrong! He uses Morrissey for "fame"(if you can call it that). He also has all these little girls who follow him who'll do anything, and I mean anything! You know who you are. He uses these girls for fun. Jose, aren't you married? Do the songs mean anything to you? Please think twice about going on stage and singing "real", great, delicate songs! Please leave them alone, because I know they mean nothing to you!
    Anonymous -- Tuesday November 21 2000, @10:49PM (#4916)
  • Jose you make me sick sick sick! What a laughing stock you are. If you even want to acquire the slightest resemblance to Morrissey lose some weight and give your Grandpa his sweater back!!
    P.S. To the fans in the Sweet and tender pics you also make me sick!! Flocking all over a nobody like he is Morrissey. If you want to gloat over Moz, sit in your rooms and listen to your Moz CD’s. Lord knows you haven't the slightest clue of who the Smith's were so I know you don't own any of their CD's. But anyway sit down and build a shrine to Morrissey and pray to his poster asking for guidance and redemption and maybe just maybe you will by some miracle become saved from your ignorance!!!
    Anonymous -- Tuesday November 21 2000, @11:07PM (#4917)
  • My 5 Commandments... (Score:2, Interesting)

    Everybody is giving this Jose guy too much importance- You would think he were Mother Teresa, or that he can turn water into wine...but it's not true! The reasons people do have a right to brutally criticize The Sweet and Tender Hooligans are as follows:

    1) SATH took a Smiths song name and used it for their band (lacking both respect, and creativity).

    2) If the Smiths would have never been, SATH would not exist.

    3) SATH profits from the Morrissey/Smiths name (if they do have an album, the only people buying it are people looking so desperately to buy anything having to do with Morrissey, or just the band's family members or friends) - the same people buying their material are the same ones making it nearly impossible to find movies like 'The Leatherboys' or 'A Taste of Honey'.

    4) SATH are trying very hard to be the Smiths (if they weren't, as they say, their front-man would not dress like, grow the burns like, or imitate Morrissey's effeminate gestures - they would just play the songs...I would personally respect them more if they were called The Mendoza's and played Smiths tunes-without the 'Morrissey' getup).

    5) Oh...and when Morrissey 'covers' another band's song...he does it with his OWN singing voice (if I recall correctly, morrissey never sounded like TREX, Mancini...etc...etc...etc... )
    HNSMDVL1 -- Wednesday November 22 2000, @10:20AM (#4936)
    (User #1816 Info)
    • Re:My 5 Commandments... by Anonymous (Score:0) Wednesday November 22 2000, @11:21AM
    • I was wondering, what's the purpose of a full time "cover band" again?
      1)
      2)
      3)
      4)
      5)
      ah. right. Thanks for reminding.

      Part Two. The quiz.
      1) name at least two titles of Smiths/Morrissey albums that were "borrowed" (try "Louder than bombs" and "Strangeways here we come", "Kill Uncle", "Bona Drag"?)
      2) name at least two bands Morrissey covered a song of, and without whom he may not have survived his early burglary years (audience shouting "T Rex", "the New York Dolls", "David Bowie")
      3) name at least two icons Morrissey actively "impersonated" and/or referred to (ah, easy, "James Dean", "Oscar Wilde", "Richard Davalos", "Shelagh Delaney", "Sandie Shaw")
      4) how original is Moz on stage? (hint from the quizmaster: think of a mix between Elvis and Jobriath, with Iggy Popesque spoliations and mike-magic)
      5) and the final one ... tata .. how well did Henry Mancini sing?

      Well I'll be damned! To be Mexican would really be a relief! Viva "Mosé"! Olé.
      An Klestar -- Wednesday November 22 2000, @12:33PM (#4941)
      (User #1449 Info)
  • ...you pluck them.

    So many anonymous posters...complaining the loudest. Like they say in the Army, "no one cares if your p*ssy hurts."
    DJJonLenin -- Wednesday November 22 2000, @06:46PM (#4950)
    (User #81 Info | http://hometown.aol.com/eltororojosd)
  • Why is this stupid cover band even making the news here? I mean, I read tons of Morrissey/The Smiths references on magazine like Select, Uncut, Q, Melody Maker, Mojo, and even the blasphemous NME. How come they never show up on this site? Instead a bunch of untalented musicians, who could easily be replaced by a jukebox, show up on it. Hell, I was just looking at an article in Mojo Selection yesterday claming the misprint of the Shoplifters album was the best collectors item of 87. In a different article, same magazine, I saw a photo of a younger Morrissey (In the best form that I have ever seen him in)looking quite sharp. Next to the photo was a commentary by the photographer, can't quite think of his/her name. It's funny, as much as the English press dislikes Morrissey now, they still see him as a legend. Why else can you pick up a copy of any British pop rag and not go without seeing Morrissey or The Smiths name in print at least one? Anyway, David, please stop giving these no talents recognition on this site.
    Anonymous -- Thursday November 23 2000, @12:46PM (#4968)
  • Hatful of Hallow (Score:2, Interesting)

    A few thoughts-
    Although we all know Morrissey's "tongue-in-cheek" and sometimes sarcastic personality, the comment "it's like I am looking in the mirror" concerns me. Can we get him fit for new contact lenses?
    Since fans of cover bands don't know any better, should we warn the John Lennon guy in the Beatles cover bands to watch out for those chubby male fans wearing a Jody Foster t-shirt?
    Jose came across with such an arrogant attitude it is no wonder the Morrissey-Solo crowd have come out swinging. You reap what you sow.
    The "journalist" who wrote this story did a very poor job trying to convey whatever the hell he was trying to convey. Does anyone know? Did Jose talk to him about making this a band article or was it aimed directly towards his ego?
    Jose should be embarrassed that the only comments about his mates was that they are basically part of the furniture, and that no one would mind or even notice had any of them imploded on stage.
    If anyone has any clue what "The man who would be Morrissey" is supposed to mean please shed some light? Morrissey is much much much more than a haircut, a fine pair of levi's and some doc martens. He has written some of the best lyrics ever.
    So how can a person who tries to shadow his every move on stage be the next Morrissey? Last time I checked Jose and his band have not written or released any original material that captivates a listener the way Morrissey has. So let's give credit where credit is due.
    It is a shame the LA Times could not have printed an article about Morrissey which I am more than positive would not have included silly stories about how he is the center of his musical friends and what a close call it was leaving a show when excited fans mobbed him. Morrissey shows restraint when talking about himself, as well as an appreciation of others(including band members both past and present) both practices Jose should have exercised.
    Johnny Marr -- Thursday November 23 2000, @07:03PM (#4976)
    (User #1113 Info)
    Going Underground
  • dear fellow reader:

    can you believe there are as of this moment 92 posts concerning a cover band?

    Now, I wasn't really around to cry over the Smith's disentigration back in 1987, and I can't claim an unresolved void by their demise, but I know the fucking difference between Morrissey and Jose Maldonado. I would not jump on a plane to see SATH perform in the middle of Timbuktu, nor would I expend the time and gas money to drive down the road if they popped up in my neighborhood. I don't give a damn about what Jose thinks about the state of the world. I don't care if he stayed in hiding for 3 years and didn't bother finding a label or releasing any material.

    It's nothing personal. He's done nothing to change my life, and I think it's bad that people are flinging themselves at him and the band when all of those hugs are really meant for some guy holed up in his mansion in LA. And it's even worse when Jose truly thinks those hugs are meant for him. If he wants to see how many of those hugs are meant for him, he should try an evening of nothing but his own material and in his own style.

    So what if the band trained a Julliard? I can tell you right now that many classically trained people just don't have the soul for rock.
    suzanne -- Thursday November 23 2000, @11:04PM (#4982)
    (User #36 Info)
    I scare dead people.
    • Well Suzanne, in all fairness - you don't want to blame José and the band for provoking this amount of posting?
      I think José knows very well what part he's playing in this comedy - and why blame an actor for wanting to be convincing?
      The article I guess tries to portray the swings of mood of the Mexico-American Morrissey followers. If José Maldonado and Co are indeed hauled in as heroes by parts of this audience, it's imperative to cover that topic as well.

      I haven't met the guy, but from what he seems to be saying in the papers (assuming he's quoted correctly), he's rather aware of his in-between status. And I would take it as no offence if Morrissey fans hug José - if he does a good job at performing Morrissey, one may as well appreciate that.

      All in all, I believe WE are led astray if we interpret this whole thing as JM promoting himself for his own personal interest. If there's promoting indeed, he's promoting the "Oye" side of Morrissey-followers, and Morrissey himself.
      You're right, classically trained musicians generally find it hard to cope with rock's versatility. But those who can, should be encouraged. And anyone able to do a neat and perfect rendition of "Girl Afraid" on a guitar deserves appreciation. For the technical skills. Are they "true" artists? I guess only inasmuch as someone who makes a normal ashtray in clay could be considered a real artist. There's craftmanship, and then there's artistic expression. Both are valuable, in a different way.
      But that's again only an opinion.

      An Klestar -- Friday November 24 2000, @10:38AM (#4998)
      (User #1449 Info)
    • Re:i can't get my head around any of it by suedehead (Score:1) Saturday November 25 2000, @11:52AM
  • I don't have anything against cover bands. They can do whatever they want, personally I'd never "pay" to see one. If you are trying to become Morrissey-yes you know who you are- spiking your hair up front and acting the introvert - be yourself, besides very few actually know Morrissey at all. He might be completely different then you think. It might be interesting to read about his interests. One of his heroes is Oscar Wilde - cemetary gates "Keats and Yates are on your side... Wilde is on mine" etc etc. Read Wilde's trial transcripts sometime, interesting stuff.. Late,
    favorite Music
    1) The Petshop Boys
    2) Morrissey / The Smiths
    3) Bjork (even though I listen to her most of the time now)
    "And I my lord, my I say nothing...."
    Anonymous -- Saturday November 25 2000, @04:48AM (#5018)
  • I can't believe this has gone as far as it has. I recently talked to Jose and he is in disbelief as to how badly he was misquoted, particularly about his bandmates. He absolutely loves them. He is a dear friend and an extremely genuine person, and he is hurt by all these comments. I dunno...it just seems odd that he get all these comments directed towards him when all he wants to do is perform Morrissey and Smiths songs on stage with his friends.
    ladymoz -- Saturday November 25 2000, @01:14PM (#5026)
    (User #154 Info)
  • ...so I will post this generically about the person who made the mention about the Uncut Article.

    Full page, hot looking pic of Moz in lame and accompanied by a nice article about how Your Arsenal was ignored because of the imaginary controversy.

    Well, obviously not imaginary as some people made the stunt of burning some of his albums in front of his label's office a week after Finsbury Park, but you know what I mean.

    This is indeed a stunning breakthrough over the years and years and years of us hearing how the british journalists universally hate him. Why hasn't anyone said much of anything? Would everyone like to read again that Morrissey was used as an answer in a TV gameshow? I can't figure out the scale of importance around here.

    True, it's not as shocking as the NME actually standing up and saying their sorry, but at least there is someone willing to stand up and say something. As far as I can see, Uncut has been much kinder to the Smiths/Johnny Marr/Morrissey legacy than most newspapers have anywhere. I mean, this is analysis, folks. Not some retread about how the Smiths were about the lonely daffodil anoraks cowering under pilfered copies of The Importance of Being Earnest, being too afraid to see the sunlight lest their eyes become singed from their overly large-prescription NHS glasses burning UV rays into their retinas.
    suzanne -- Saturday November 25 2000, @04:22PM (#5032)
    (User #36 Info)
    I scare dead people.
  • If you are a "true" Morrissey/Smiths fan, would you *ever* think of getting up on stage in front of other people and impersonating him? I can't imagine that any heartfelt fan would do that. I think it shows great hubris and a lack of respect for the man. What could be the result of such an activity other than a misrepresentation and cheapening of something that (at least theoretically) is important to you?
    Passing Kijowski <[email protected]> -- Sunday November 26 2000, @04:09AM (#5038)
    (User #1810 Info)
    So how can you call this a home, when you know it's a grave? But can you SING, Verrechia?
  • Sad to say, Jose is completely exploiting Morrissey and that is the bottom line. He is making $$$ with someone else's music. If this is not true, why does SATH charge people to see them perform Smiths and Morrissey songs?
    Anonymous -- Sunday November 26 2000, @03:30PM (#5052)
  • The Anonymous guy above is right...If the band does it just for 'kicks'...why would they still charge Morrissey groupies to see them?...Have they not payed off the cost of their instruments in all of their eight years or so as SATH?...I mean, how much can an old thrifted Cardigan cost you these days...They were cheap in the 80's, they are practically free today...I say they should at least donate the money to a 'Morrissey-Related' charity (we tend to follow his every step, dont we?)...Who's with me???
    HNSMDVL1 -- Monday November 27 2000, @02:29AM (#5097)
    (User #1816 Info)
  • Long live The Smiths!!!!!!!!!
    I wonder what the Moz thinks about all this??
    Anonymous -- Monday November 27 2000, @02:54PM (#5142)
  • Allright, let me lay it down on the line. I can live with the fact that Jose and his boys are going out every so often to play dress up and imitate greatness. I can even live with the fact that they charge (Morrissey) fans 3 bucks a ducket for their efforts, afterall, gas isn't cheap nowadays right? But what I don't get is how this karoake singer believes he is special in any way. Basically saying how he is the star and every other guy in the band is nothing was just sad! Hell, the whole freaking band can be replaced! What makes it even worse is that the guy is trying to get an acting career out of this. Bit pieces on sitcoms doesn't make you a star Jose! I heard he almost beat out Adam Sandler for the lead role in "The Wedding Singer". Uh, yeah right. Oh and another thing, get off this guy for being Mexican. Race doesn't make this guy pathetic, it's the fact he is just using Moz to get stardom. Moz couldn't make himself a household name and you are pathetic for even trying.

    P.S. By the way clones, i'm getting sick and tired of your emails from "Ricky Martin", "Desi Arnaz", "Tito Puente" and "Mana". Some of these guys aren't even Mexican, they have nothing to do with this!
    Jim Rome -- Monday November 27 2000, @02:57PM (#5143)
    (User #720 Info | http://www.jimrome.com/)
    ...and how?
  • Morrissey? Never heard of the guy.

    Sincerly,

    Ricky Martin
    Jim Rome -- Monday November 27 2000, @02:58PM (#5144)
    (User #720 Info | http://www.jimrome.com/)
    ...and how?
  • For all of you in this arguement; I was at a show at Irvine Bren Events Center on Oct 28, 1997. Before they played Alma Maters, Morrissey says, and I quote, "you know, I've always wished I'd been born MEXICAN, but it's too late now!" For those who can't beileve, I have it on video.

    Also, I've met the singer for Sweet and Tender Hooligans a few times, at a Morrissey/Smiths convention, he had no arrogance towards anybody and sang with a reverence only haters could be very, very JEALOUS of. He also showed up at a friends party to sing a few songs and kick back with people who he's known and wanted to say Happy Birthday too, even though he's not being paid to sing. And also, he played beautiful acoustic versions of ASK, Now my Heart is Full and Suedehead and I can say any fan could only dream of hearing Morrissey in person and acoustic to bring the full beauty of Morrissey music the way he can.
    Anonymous -- Tuesday November 28 2000, @12:22AM (#5165)
  • "Oh...Mexicans this...Mexicans that...Why don't you all scroll down your 'Bookmarks', and pleasure yourself to 'Vicar In A Tutu'...you Pansy -Asses!
    Anonymous -- Tuesday November 28 2000, @02:36AM (#5168)
  • No lo puedo creer que tanta gente pueda decir tantas cosas malas de mi hijo. Yo creeía que mi hijo no tenía enemigos, pero ahora estoy viendo que eso no es cierto. Por todos sus comentarios y sus llamadas a mi casa, estamos pensando en cambiar nuestro numero telefonico. ¡Son unos desgraciados! ¿Que, a caso sus madres no les enseñaron buenos modales? Por favor paren de llamarnos a la casa con sus amenazas...Temo por la salud de mi hijo, gracias.
    Anonymous -- Tuesday November 28 2000, @03:02AM (#5173)
  • It is truly a shame that disguised under a dislike for Morrissey Cover Bands, were messages of racism, and ignorance that have little to do with, SATH, Morrissey, or the topic at hand. I can not believe that in defense of MOrrissey so many would stoop to attacks on a portion of Morrissey's fanbase. What is more disgusting, is the fact that you find such comments funny and insightful. Take the article for what it was and is , a person's interpretation of events and SATH. It is likely few want to hear what you have to say and would not miss you. Try and find a website that caters to your lust for racism, ignorance, and discrimination.
    Anonymous -- Tuesday November 28 2000, @06:54PM (#5208)
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