.....the plot thickens

It shows real loyalty to respond in this manner. Kudos to you.

Peter

Wow, bravo to Merck for not mincing words. What a verbal attack. Moz needs people like this on his side. While I do think that Joyce's drumming has been somewhat overlooked in the past, surely he has made enough money from The Smiths by now. Most (all?) of the other Smiths would have amounted to nothing without Morrissey. It's time to stop siphoning blood from him like obese vampires.
ACTON

Merck fucking rocks!

If this is true, and Joyce does take all of Morrissey's Smiths royalties...this is shocking! Morrissey should have paid Joyce the million pounds like the judge ordered...maybe he would be still recieving his Smiths royalties. Having said that, if Joyce now gets all Morrissey's Smiths royalties...it is a great injustice. I was always under the impression that Joyce never got paid the judgement, and anytime Morrissey played a concert in the UK, Joyce had to go to court, to seize his profits. Morrissey has also claimed that Joyce tried to get Morrissey's mother's and sister's property, because it was Morrissey who had bought them their homes. The fact is simple, if Joyce has now recieved full payment of Judge Weeks decision, then he should not get a penny more....twat!

As always, it's good to get some perspective on this whole sorry episode, and get an opinion from someone with knowledge of both parties.

If you and Morrissey have truly parted ways, then your input and willingness to speak on his behalf will be sorely missed.

That's what it means to take somebody out. Or does it mean something different in England? I think Merck is British.

Nice one Merk, it is always good to see such loyalty.

Mike is entitled to 10 percent of anything earned from The Smiths official recordings from now until the end of time, correct? That's fair.

Anything other than that is unjust.

Now as for the million pounds, I supposed that was awarded to Mike for back payment. Andy took a small settlement, but Mike pursued the full million and won. Morrissey refused to pay that million and I'm assuming this is what Mike is going after Morrissey for, right?

If I'm wrong, someone correct me, but I think both Andy and Mike have a right to 10 percent of Smiths music revenue as that was the original agreement many years ago.

If Mike is still going after that million pounds, he should probably get it. Even Johnny conceded to the ruling if memory serves.

If this is true and Joyce gets all of Moz's royalties from the Smiths, no wonder Moz is so bitter and struggles to let go and move on - British justice, eh? At the very most it should be no more than 25%, but even that amount for Joyce and Rourke would be generous becasue without Morrissey/Marr there would be no Smiths; without Joyce and Rourke there would still have been a band called the Smiths - they were expendable. Makes me want to give Moz a great big hug. Looks like Moz has made a mistake letting go of Merck. He's a fighter!

please get around to sorting out some proper tour dates in support and preceding Years of Rufusal's release. I'd like to see you again ASAP.

PS: I like 5 night stands, especially in the US.

PPS: It worked for YATQ

Thanks for posting this Merck.

no Smiths reunion anytime soon?

the last sentence was a bit strong.... or am i just reading into something thats not there?

You are my hero!

After reading this, I have a better understanding of this very strange and unjust legal drama. I swear, Judge Judy would have handed down a better judgement.

Seriously, though, true justice will prevail. But the wait must be hell.

Thank you for taking the time to defend Morrissey and his art. I hope your successor carries on the same high standards, and continues to keep fans properly informed.

Salud!

..that Joyce would eventually tell one lie too many.

That he should be so stupid to try and suggest that Morrissey was receiving all the Smiths royalties to the detriment of the other members is unbelievable. How on earth could Morrissey have the means to do that? It totally destroys Joyce's credibility. If he can lie about that what else has he lied about in the past?

And to do it in such a sly, slimey way! It tells me all I need to know about the man.

Should I be more sad that the Smiths broke up or that Merck and Morrissey have parted ways? I really respect Merck.

I think Joyce is pure evil. He`ll get his comeuppance. It`s such a shame that he had to be one of the Smiths. He doesn`t deserve that honour.

i better not comment on this...

Are Smiths album sales that great to earn much royalties anyway?

Is this why The Smiths are not on iTunes? I hate Joyce!

...perhaps Joyce is seeking the extra royalties for Rourke (who as we all know settled out of court for a much smaller amount). I've no evidence for this but it would make sense as Rourke is his best mate.

Yours,

Agafa Kristy.

Is going to be the next villain in the next Batman. Working title "This Charming Batman"

I love you Merck Mercuriadis.

The sycophants are shouting with glee.

First off, I have no idea how valid Merck's claims are. It is quite clear that his role in Morrissey Inc. is to provide damage control via this site on hot button issues.

However, no one else knows the truth either, yet they eat Merck's comments up like sad drones searching for a leader.

If you're going to have skepticism, it's probably better off employed toward the comments of a "suit" who is involved in the music business, not a former drummer for a band that was truly taken advantage of by his narcissistic singer, and his "whatever you say goes" guitarist.

This grotesque cheerleading seems as if it would come from a horde of suburban teenagers.

I'm sure it is.

  You can't always get what you want
and in Mike Joyce's case he didn't get what
he needed obviously.
    Sometimes you just have to give up on chasing
  things like this and get on with your life.
It's sad, but it's just the same as when you grieve over a lost parent and then you have to deal with the terrible aftermath of wills and families tearing themselves to pieces over property and money.....you soon find out the true nature of people and their petty little ways.
    There are more important things in life than money and if someone has ripped you off or if you feel that they have, do you still want their money. Some things are forever tainted..........

Good of you to clear things up, and to stand up for Morrissey. I have a lot of respect for you, and for your willingness to speak the truth.

Viva Morrissey!
Viva Merck!

Just to add to the chorus of Merck-nodders.

What a nice thing for someone besides Moz's fans to come to his defense so articulately and artistically. Only David T., due to seniority, surpasses him in tireless support. Anyway, I appreciate the input. Cheers!

Ok, Merck would have definitely gotten ALL U NEED IS ME into the Top 20

Thank u Merck

The facts really are quite simple:

a) The court ruled in Joyce's favour. Unlike Johnny Marr, Morrissey has yet to pay Joyce.

b) Any further royalties Mike has been paid were acquired rightfully and legally through the courts. I'm sure Morrissey would like you all to believe the British legal system is in cahoots with Joyce to steal his money. Of course this is not the case.

If you must pursue this line of argument, let's all hear your blinding insights into the faults of the legal system, the minutiae of contracts etc. Sure, issues of morality do have bearing. But until Mike's caught breaking into one of Moz's mansions to steal his hearing aid to sell at auction, please put the baseball bats down.

Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion on this matter, and I even can understand why Morrissey's supporters may feel a bit of Mike-bashing is in order. But if you really love The Smiths, why put down Mike's contribution? A lot of people have written expressing the belief that Joyce would not have amounted to anything had it not been for Morrissey/Marr. (I should remind everyone that this sort of thinking has in fact been applied to Morrissey with respect to Johnny Marr pulling him up and out of his bedroom-bound existence.) It puzzles me that some people can't acknowledge that Mike DID make something of himself. He WAS the drummer for one of the greatest of all UK bands after all.

All the naysayers please send in all your platinum discs showcasing your vast musical ability. And please include sales figures as evidence of your world-beating, chart-busting success story. Or just cut Mike some bleedin' slack.

But maybe the fans should create a "Smiths Fund".

Everybody donates money into a fund until the million pounds is collected and then donate it to the courts for Joyce in Morrissey's name.

LOL.

I dunno...If Merck doesn't really know whether it was really Mike Joyce who posted the message, he should probably shouldn't go off on Mike Joyce.

I'm glad Merck is eager to share info, but he seems to have a tendency to say too much. "There are only 13 Tuesdays left..."

... Morrissey responds to this too. It's too funny.

Much respect!

Sure, Joyce might be a greedy bastard considering the scheme of what went into crafting their masterpieces - but the talk of how him and Rourke were expendable is *sheer* ignorance.

Call me biased or call me qualified because I play drums myself but Joyce and Rourke were a truly gifted section to behold. Consider a song like "Pretty Girls Make Graves", especially when they played it live - that is a mark of what "playing in the pocket" is all about.

Just a little consideration of their musicianship is all I'd like to see!

With luv,

Matt
www.myspace.com/elementzerogroove

I know two things about Mike Joyce.

1. He was a terrific drummer for The Smiths.

2. Morrissey didn't pay him what he owed him and Morrissey, thus, lost in court. (Morrissey lies a lot about the court case in the media, so I advise people to do your own research on it.)

Anything else to do with the dispute is irrelevant to me, and of course MErck is just a shill. Those who try and suggest The Smiths were not better for having Joyce in the band are just wrong. Those who insist Joyce was a jerk for taking Morrissey to court to get the money he was owed, how would you feel if a greedy person you had worked with was cheating you for years?

First off, Joyce is a useless piece of garbage who has, since the Smiths, made a career out of being unemployed and unemployable. He is a worthless, talentless nobody who realizes this and knows the only shot he has at being semi wealthy is to steal from the man who gave him his 15 minutes, over 20 years ago. He needs to let go and find his rightful place in life, which is back of the food stamp line.

Secondly, if Marr paid his share of the million dollar settlement, shouldn't Mike be waiting on no more than a half million from Morrissey?

So he's got half million from Marr, is (and has been) fattening up via all Smiths royalties lately while Morrissey gets nothing from the band he fronted and Joyce has the fucking balls to come here and stir shit up?

What a nasty, greedy man.

GET A JOB!

Thanks for clearing this up....

As much as I appreciated Mr. Mercuriadis formerly informative postings on this site, this one has made me loose a lot of respect for him.

His comment isn´t factual & with the underlying aggression & populistic phrasing I can´t take his "information" any more serious than the "information" in the comment sent in by "Mike" (Joyce or other).

As someone else has already pointed out, Mr. Mercuriadis doesn´t even know IF the statement really was written by Mike Joyce & that he goes off on it the way he does gives me the impression he is doing what he reproaches Mike Joyce for: "it is dishonest and clearly meant to inflame you against {Mike Joyce}".

& even IF Mike Joyce had posted that other comment, he surely has the same right to state his opinion as everybody else - no matter if anyone agrees with him or not.

& to request us to take out the frustration we sometimes feel on Mike Joyce is clearly over the top. Mr. Mercuriadis sunk on a very low level here & lost his credibility for me. Shame.

As to the whole royalties-argument, I don´t feel able to pass a judgement - other than that I´m very sad that it came to this mudslinging. I wish ALL of them had been a bit more mature about it & found a way to settle their difficulties without becoming destructive towards the other party.

if you, johnny and andy ever get back onstage together one day, this will hurt Joyce harder than anything and all that money in his pocket will be a shallow victory.

Having travelled to Smiths and Moz gigs all over the planet since the year dot, I think it only fair,reasonable and just to submit a claim for a share of all royalties.

What about my share? Like legions of others, I now stake my claim to being the 'fifth Smith'!!! Oh dear, that was Craig Gannon. Life's a bitch.

I need to move on.

"it is offensive to me, not to mention, immoral that Mike Joyce should be getting paid for Morrissey's share of Meat Is Murder, The Queen Is Dead et al. It is the equivalent of the easel getting paid for Van Gogh's paintings..."

Has this guy actually heard 'The Queen Is Dead'. The music on the LP starts with Mike's drumming!

Ok,

So here's my piece for what it's worth.

I actually went to the court case for a full four days (so much so that Johnny Rogan and the Mike Joyce Gang began to look at me like I was some sort of Morrissey spy-which I wasn't).

There is so much to go into that I won't get into it (I know), but trust me it's fascinating.

For all you Joyce and Rourke supporters that think Mike was hard done by all those years, guess what he and Andy's income was in 1986....

50,000 + POUNDS !!!! (Each)

Well when I heard that read out in court I just about fell off my seat.

For a session musician who never had to write any of the music, whom was in a band that never had top 5 singles or ever had top 5 albums (for very long) that's not bad wedge to make.

Look I'm not a Morrissey apologist but I did go to the court case and all those Joyce sychophants make it put as a straight forward claim when it was anything but.. and there are many other points I could bring up but what's the point???

Mike aint the gilded lily you paint him to be...

See you later.

Roger.

I'm liking you more and more every minute, Merck

I’d love to have a friend like Merck who, as well as providing sympathy and clarity, actually is in a position for his opinion to deliver a whack and change things.

I’m intrigued by the reason he and Morrissey parted ways. His mention of absolution and penance makes me wonder if they had a little disagreement on something, besides it being unusual for Merck, as a company CEO, to be holding a parallel career temporarily as a manager. I sense it was not necessarily about the action taken to re- accommodate the NME editor when staying in the same hotel as Morrissey, but more about how he told the world about it, while at the same time feeling that Morrissey doesn’t mind Merck inserting a mark on Solo and making our day with reliable news and insights as the need arises. I think both see this as a very minor issue anyway and they’ll always highly respect eachother, so it’d be at the least convenient if they were teaming up again, as the reliable gossip source CMU surmises.

Mmmm, Mike Joyce says, like he is relishing something which, because of the seriousness of the case, seems very immature, as if he’s manically possessed by the hunt for blood. We have Morrissey’s clear factual statement which sharply contrasts in its openness and comprehensiveness. Mozzersgirl makes a very good point here of why Joyce’s position is lacking credibility -
http://www.morrissey-solo.com/comments.pl?sid=2849 5&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=30 5110#305158

The artful roger confirms Joyce’s cushioned financial position ever since the band broke up - http://www.morrissey-solo.com/comments.pl?sid=2850 3&cid=305395

But what now? Everyone is nearly up to speed on the realisation of the drain this business must have behind the scenes but is there a solution? Other people must have fallen into similar disputes, so have any of them salvaged an acceptable deal and importantly their autonomy so that they can regain attention and freedom to get on with life? If Merck, who has immense experience and competence in the industry, and Morrissey who is so intelligent, can’t address the possibility of a real settlement and final break from this enduring parasitical nightmare, it looks like we’re all stuck with it rearing its ugly fanged head intermittently from here to eternity.

The only thing that I’ve come up with is third party mediation or arbitration as described here - http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/conflict_resol ution/73578 - but other people better versed in such debacles may have better ideas.

I’m off to read the newspaper now – murder, war, economies collapsing, planets burning, religions falling etc – the usual stuff, which will relieve my immediate over-involvement here! If as is likely I come across something about Moz’ visit, I’ll revert to fellow-soloers without undue delay.

Bottoms up!

for your integrity and telling the truth to us at Solo.

Your contributions are valued (unlike Joyce's).

The fact that Joyce is trying to make this a piss-fight (as evidenced by not only his first official post but his next in answer to yours) just exudes how insecure he is about the situation. Have we all become a thorn in his side? Maybe the scales of justice are tipping...slowly.

this has to be bullshit. why would the courts award morrissey's personal royalties to mike joyce? it makes no sense whatsoever.

i think it's very strange how this has come out and it's odd that merck is leaping to morrisseys' defence since he's "parted company". i smell a rat.

what's even more ridiculous, though not surprising, is how devoted people on this site are to slagging off mike joyce.

you never deserved that money you f'n prick!

This man is clearly insane. Who does he think he is, posting something like this without even telling Moz about it? He'll be furious. It's badly written and has no legal basis in fact. He is dangerous to Moz's career. It's no surprise he got the sack. Never have a fan manage you!