Nothing remarkably new, but the backstage footage looked pretty interesting! Even better is just the fact that the Smiths get the credit they finally deserve!

irish blood, english heart

In the absence of anything new to say, this documentary decided to rake up muck, such as the paedophile scandal, which it left totally unresolved other than Andy Rourke recalling how scary it was and Dale Hibbert claiming he was dumped from the band because he was straight.

Basically, it was complete crap, I sat there thinking, " I turned over from that erotic movie on channel 5 for this?".

Note to programme maker: must try harder.

Well it was certainly interesting!
Thought the use of the gorillaz-esque cartoon charactertures were a bit crappy though, obviously a tight budget.

Great backstage footage though and you've got to wonder who has the rest of those tapes with the really juicy stuff on.
Not enough footage of the recent RAH gig but hopefully the Channel 4 thing will show a lot more from Birmingham et al.

Rogan appears - boo! hiss!
Calls our Moz a "strange creature" obviously no-one has ever told him he is a bald twat and there certainly is a place in hell for him and his friends.

Roddie Woomble from Idlewild summed up the recent gigs nicely by saying it was bizarre to watch 5000 grown professional men break down in tears when Moz walked on stage! Nice touch.

Other things woth commenting on:
Mike Joyce - looking very Brandon Block these days but a lot more articulate.

Sandie Shaw - looking good and yes I'm sure Mozza was very happy she answered the door in her pyjamas because I certainly would be!

John Peel - Could never mutter an unjust utterance against the God but what was the significance of the 4-2 on the wall in the background of his house?

Nice clips of the forthcoming film as well.
Hey it was better than nothing.

Whats the sketch not showing this North of the border though? Had to tune my Sky box to pickup ITV Granada!

what a major dissapointment!
they had the opportunity to educate a whole new generation and instead chose to put a cartoon mozza and some old farts who were 'smiths' for a day
crap total crap!!!

Well, the cartoons didn`t add anything to the proceedings, nor did the voice of Vic Reeves. This rockumentary was just some poor excuse to get in on the NME's The Smiths "best band in 50 years" money-making scheme.

The good things were IMHO:
- Real views from the band
- Background on Manchester/Moz upgringing
- The odd clip of archive footage
- Interviews with other people involved at the time

The bad things were IMHO:
- The albums were whizzed through at a rate with no depth of information about any of the tracks
- UK Moz fans not treated seriously
- Moz solo stuff being given rough treatment
- Moz fans presented as hangers-on to The Smiths past glories.

For the record, you have to accept that there are only so many ways you can present the same information about a person growing up in a place. At the end of the day it was inevitable that some info would have been available before. It can`t be helped.

The Smiths were sold in this show as "more than the sum of their parts", but let's face it, Moz is really good on his own too. I went to 3 packed-out shows that proved this to be true. No-one I spoke to or overheard criticised the performances. Only 2 comments I`ve seen on this site that said that they didn`t like the show they had attended.

I`m sure all those people didn`t just turn up on the off-chance he'd bang out 4 old Smiths songs. They went to hear HIM and HIS music.

Give the man some respect !. Don`t go to a Moz show expecting to hear The Smiths because you will be setting yourself up for a fall. The Smiths is dead, so we have to be happy with Moz doing current-day renditions with his current-day band...and from what I saw there were no complaints !.

I think Mr. Nolan has a lot to answer for.

You can't do a doc on The Smiths without interviewing Morrissey. It was mainly just a parade of straight facts without ever investigating what made The Smiths so special and interesting, which was Morrissey's vision and what he brought to pop music from outside pop music.

Following The Smiths documentary I've just watched, can any of you Morrissey experts answer the following:
- Re:Andy Rourke's comments, how many Peel sessions did The Smiths actually do, does anyone have them all, where can you obtain them?
- Am I right in thinking that Johnny Rogan used to have a long gingerish beard?
- Who was the woman "singing" over the opening and closing credits?
- Has anyone got the Suffer Little Children demo?
- How the hell were the programme's makers allowed to use that recent footage of Moz filmed at the Royal Albert Hall? It looked like a pirate video!
- Why was Phill Gatenby stood a million miles away from The Ritz?
- Was it an in-joke to have adverts for KFC in two of the ad-breaks?

While any T.V. programme on The Smiths is obviously welcome, I thought it was very frustrating and disjointed and could've been so much better.
Some of the interviews were interesting (John Peel is always good value), but Vic Reeves' voiceover gradually became annoying as we couldn't hear any of what was being said in the home-made Smiths' video footage. Also, what the hell was the point of the silly cartoons?; Obviously sour grapes on the part of the producer failing to get an interview with Moz, but couldn't some of the 100 hours of (supposedly available) footage have been used for Morrissey's old interview-voiceovers instead of those crappy drawings?
Some of the footage we saw in the trailers for this programme was (annoyingly) not included in the actual programme.
Also, the new Moz film from which we saw a clip looked as awful as it sounds, especially the acting.
Apart from that (and the silly guitar noises that perforated each segment and rapidly became annoying), I did enjoy watching it!

I think the BBC 2 documentary from a couple of years ago covered the same ground, and at least they had Johnny Marr in the flesh and not some 1984 video footage. You can't expect too much in a one-hour programme though. An extended DVD release might be more interesting. But after dealing with the formation of The Smiths, it galloped through 1984 - 86 to get to the split.

What was that odd comment about Marr planning to launch The Healers next year? They've been around for ages!

But as I say on the discussion board, at least the BBC didn't make it in their dreary talking heads style. You can just see it, can't you? Zoe Ball twittering (from the autocue), "Oh yeah, I remember Morrissey always waving flowers around" - cut to clip of "Tbe Oxford Road Show" showing him doing just that. Cutting edge!

did they make this to annoy morrissey?
if i didnt know the music of the smiths,
I would have thought them a load of ****
first time ive ever seen anything about the smiths on T.V exept that great performance of 'how soon is now?' on top of the pops -this, disappointing -
saw morrissey last week in Birmingham- great gig-
still love him to bits!!!
take care all - peace

I've just done a web search for Granada Tv and found this address -

Granada Television
Quay Street
Manchester
M60 9EA

According to Manchester Online, the producer's name is David Nolan so I suggest those of us who have valid criticisms put them in writing to him. If Moz's audience has valid criticisms then the program makers should take note. I'm not suggesting we send stupid hate mail, but they must listen to our opinions. If we don't tell them, they'll never learn.

Can anyone tell me if it is possible to get a copy of the Southbank show documentary from yesteryear?

Pretty crap, really...

you cant have a documentry with marr and morrissey.it was nothing new
2 bitter twats some old farts and vic bloody reeves
john peel spoke the only truth

Why on earth did Nolan make this thing.
He's simply reproduced the Young Guns program but without the Marr interviews. Who gives a flying f*&% what that slaphead Rogan thinks. Nolan even gets Andy Rourke to repeat the same story about how ridiculous the Paul Young band looked in the 80's. Proof positive that his research consisted simply of watching Young Guns and then phoning up Smiths writers who have already done their own research.
Since Morrissey got further up the UK charts in his solo period, then why is that dismissed so lightly. As for 5000 grown men crying when Moz comes on stage, has anyone ever seen such a thing?
Of course, the program had to focus most of its attention on the trial because that's all so riveting.
As for the coverage of the RAH gig - at least show Moz actually singing and then the TV audience can make up their own minds.
A salient lesson to current fans - the next time someone shoves a microphone under your chin and says "we're making a documentary about Moz in order to give him the glory & recognition he so richly deserves" - tell them to shove it up Rogan's ginger-haired arse.

Can't wait to see the Channel 4 one.

is anyone else on here old enough to remember the south bank show about the smiths?
I have it on video along with stuff from the tube,oxford road show,whistle test etc etc etc and that was a proper doc about the smiths. it was released about a month after the split
these things take time was a joke compared to that!!!

Quite simply a rushed job. They obviously did'nt have permission to use the actual songs so bought cheap clips from the tube. I thought peel was a bit critical, i allways thought he adored the smiths. Johhny rogan is a tool and a half and what morrissey said about him involving a car crash cannot come soon enough. Vic reeves final words for the documentary "morrissey rarely, if ever gives interviews", bollocks, get upto date granada, janice long, dave fanning etc.

To say the least im truly Dissappointed.
Im not sure what the ideal Smiths documentaty is taking all realistic factors into account but that just aint it..

the producer David Nolan is a twat!

What did anyone expect? Granada Television used to make decent music programmes until about 10 years ago, but not any more.

Virtually all the Morrissey "voice overs" to accompany the cartoon were lifted from The South Bank Show.

I planned my whole night around it and it wasn't on in my area :-(

The programme was complete shite! As for Andy Rourke & Mike Joyce the less said the better what a bunch of morons.

He is an overrated, unfunny cunt. By using him it underminded the seriousness of what was meant to be a documentary.

And Moz doesn't like him so that's bound to have pissed him off, although I'm not sure what's so offensive about the consumer monkey if that's the reason.

Just seen the cobbled together docu-soap/show, These Things Take Time, and although I was entertained by it, not a lot new was learnt.. except I never knew Morrissey insisted on a small tree as part of his rider in the dressing room!! I like amusingly eccentric tales like that.

I also enjoyed the grainy backstage footage of The Smiths hanging out before gigs.. a little peak into the bands lives before they perform.

Johnny Rogan spoke a lot, talk of 'rent-a-Talking Head'!! There are other Smiths/Morrissey authorities far more deserving of sitting down and making different insightful comentaries I am sure.. Take most people on this board for a start. Although the Severed Alliance is a kind of bible to Smithdom, I am always a bit suspicious of Rogan for some reason, like someone I am wouldn't naturally warm too in real life. John Peel is always good value though who was also on the show.

Thought Rourke and Joyce came over well.. and if Mike Joyces parting shot that, and a quote to the effect that " Morrissey won't pay the money because the English courts legislation carries no weight in the States in his (Morrisseys) opinion".. is true, then that sounds very wrong of Morrissey to me. But I'm sure there's more to it than that.

Ruffian

PS The South Bank Show was better!

I spent hours trying to tune my video into Tyne Tees and even bought an new aerial, and what for? A bunch of jealous, bitter old twats moaning on about nothing particularly interesting and certainly nothing new. The voiceover was terrible and the caroons were cringingly awful. It was badly put together and barely included ANY Smiths footage, let alone the 'rare exclusive performancese' I was expecting. The comment from dale hibbert about johnny and morrissey supposedly kicking him out because he was straight and they wanted an image as a 'gay band' was laughable. Sour grapes or what? As someone else mentioned, if you'd watched this rubbish having not heard or known much of the Smiths before, you wouldn't have a clue how great the Smiths really were and how much they meant. Although you might have learned that Moz is not a popular fellow among the makers and participants of the programme (that's assuming you hadn't fallen asleep after the first 15 minutes). All in all, a huge dissapointment.

What's this about a BBC documentary? Could someone please enlighten me?

There seems to be some confusion on this site about just how many Documentaries there've been. In the UK, the main ones to date are -

THE SOUTH BANK SHOW ITV from 1987
YOUNG GUNS BBC2 from 1999 (come on people, it wasn't THAT long ago - have you forgotten already?)
THESE THINGS TAKE TIME ITV Granada from 2002

plus this supposed new Channel 4 one.

As for These Things Take Time itself. For those who didn't see it, here are pros /cons.

GOOD THINGS...
1. Best by far was Grant Showbiz's old camcorder footage of the band mucking around backstage in 1984. Includes Marr chicken-dancing and joking about the fans outside screaming for Moz that "he's celibate girls!".
2. For first time we get to hear about 10 secs of first ever Smiths demo "Suffer Little Children" - sound quality great, track quite slow, Moz's singing very low.
3. Old TV clips - though you can get them on bootleg and been seen before, the sound quality of the old Tube TV clips were incredible, particularly "There Is A Light"
4. Joyce and Rourke - regardless of their reputation on this site, they actually came over very well as very humble, very nice blokes.
5. Craig Gannon - it was good to see him now, though his story about the sandwich seemed very petty.
6. Sandie Shaw - still gorgeous!
7. John Peel - still funny.
8. Though Rogan dominated the talking heads, at least the producers tried to balance his waffle by having other Smiths book authors like Phil Gatenby and Simon Goddard give their 2 seconds worth and we got to see a few landmarks like the famous iron bridge (though they could have got other Smiths 'experts' - Shaun Duggan? Stephen Daigle? Pat Reid?).
9. At least we know what Dale looks like although as others have said here his "gay band" story sounds utter, utter bullshit.
10. Morrissey's old teacher - first time we'd seen her on TV too, even though she didn't say much.

BAD THINGS ...

1. The cartoons were AWFUL, especially the lip-synching with Morrissey's real voice.
2. There were obvious licensing problems with music as you didn't get to hear much.
3. Johnny Rogan - he spoke about Morrissey's youth as if he knew him at the time and his joy at being there to watch the court case bordered on the parasitical.
4. Too much ripped off the South Bank Show documentary so it wasn't that original to start with.
5. Not enough emphasis on how great the records were and the gigs, too many trivial anecdotes (eg Gannon's sandwich and Dale's "gay band" bollocks)
6, Cheesy opening titles and that shit cover of "There Is A Light"
7. Vic Reeves narration - got a bit irritating, especially over the old home video footage which you could have watched on its own really.
8. Clips from My Life With Morrissey - looks very embarrassing and very shit!
9. Though good to see Steven Street, Rourke, Joyce etc, some of their stories/quotes we'd heard before and it was sloppy of the producers to go over old ground.
10. A few bad factual errors, the worst one being that Moz and Johnny didn't meet till 1982 when, if they'd done their research, they actually first met at a Patti Smith gig a few years earlier.

TTTT is worth watching/getting a copy of - certain bits will intrigue, but it's definitely not the show it could have been and for all the hype and David Nolan's comments in the Manchester press/ Manchester on-line, this doesn't live up to his bigmouth.

Jake Sweeney.
x

Every Smiths fan that is a collector seen or heard nothing new.

In that Nolan made the show not for *us* Smiths/Moz fans, but the viewing public in general! I mean we might have been happy to see one hour of the backstage footage, but I don't think the granada execs would have been too happy!

irish blood, english heart

came home from the pub and great, it wasnt on in my area, just a small selection of the whole country.

ITV1 my ass.

granada /carlton must be available up north only.
arghhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!

What a load of SH*TE!The rare footage was great but the programme just looked so cheap & the interviews were hardly insightful & i'm sure Morrissey would have been pleased that Johnny Rogan was in it throughout.I thought it was BOBBINS!

I was drunk throughout friday and on top of that in the yorkshire area, but our kid saw it and said it was good but he's only 17!!

I live in Liverpool and so got the Granada broadcast on Friday night. Did the rest of the UK get it or was it only the Manchester sweep? Anyoldhow, big let down. I always try and imagine watching anything about the Smiths or Moz through the eyes of someone who either knows nothing about them or can't stand them. Then judge if this would impress/convert/convince them. 'These Things Take Time' would no none of those. Concentrating too much on talking head interviews and not nearly enough of the MUSIC (and we didn't get into The Smiths for the thoughts of Mike or Andy - we got into the way they played bass and hit them drums) so why would anyone consider Andy's heroin addiction interesting? It's not interesting to Smiths fans (we don't care) so therefore dull in the extreem to anyone who's tuned in my mistake.

If anything, talk of smack and legal writs undermined what should have been a showcase for the band as a BAND. Backstage footage, well, interesting to the obsessive but - let's be honest - poor quality and without sound - is not going to give Dagenham Dave the enthusiasm to rush out and buy their Greatest Hits tomorrow is it?

As a fan, we always want to recruit. And although this might not have been the aim of the documentary (what was?), this will get no new inquisitive innocents clicking on this website for the first time.

We all have the feeling that given the budget and the workforce, we could do a better job on a Smiths documentary. But personally, I'd like a lid on the Smiths until someone makes a serious attempt at a book or film about Morrissey's solo years. Which, and you might hate me for this, are more interesting.

I enjoyed it so much i masturbated for six hours after it had finished

sat on my floor's kitchen.alone.my friends out.i stayed to see the documentary.i'd have gone out and got drunk.it was useless,repetitive and too much spoken.andy rourke is so sadly ugly now.i really detested that sort of cartoons they made.the real Morrissey appeared,dunno,2 times.the end,with Moz sunbathing in his lavish new life was absolutely mocking and ridicolous.

hiya,i live in Manchester and this bloody rain is dragging me down!!!