Oh My God! This guy is such a dweeb. He is still sucking off the smiths tit fifteen years later. at least Marr rests on his own post smiths achievments. why would you have to make the highlight of your sight the fact that you are the "former smiths drummer"??? answer: because you havent done anything worth a shit yourself. as for the comments about why he can't put up those tracks because of you know who or whatever the hell he said.... well, no shit sherlock. you didn't write those tracks, moron!! YOU ARE A DRUMMER! What do you call a guy that hangs around talented musicians? A DRUMMER. VIVA MOZ

I don't like this at all. Seems like a trick to me, one more way to convey anger against Morrissey, using this time "frustrated fans" like a mob that apparently can be led to anything. Seems to be a bait, more precisely.
If that's right, I'm sad, very sad. I want to be wrong.

His disgusting “There is only one factor in this that is stopping me from putting these tracks up on this site. I'm sure you all know what/who that is....”. sounds like another stab in the back by someone who doesn’t realize how like he was to meet Him when he was nothing but a boring drummer.

What does he expect us to do after reading his “enigmatic” PS? Run immediately to him because he has a couple of unheard Morrissey/Marr tracks in his cellar? Hate Morrissey because he doesn’t let him upload those tracks to his site?

My God! Take my advice Mr.Joke and for once do something useful (or useless) by yourself instead of showing us that you incapable of doing anything but trying to take advantage of something that DOES NOT belong to you.

All you Morrissey clones need to leave Mike alone. I'm sure if he put the tracks up you would be the first to download them. He is only trying to help the fans out which is more then I can say about Morrissey at this time. Shoot Morrissey has plenty of unheard tracks and he hasn't done nothing with them. NO NEW ALBUM, just an old one of the same stuff.

I applaud Mike for trying to release these tracks although I knew if Morrissey found out it wouldn't happen. Also, those of you that are dissing him because he is proud to be a drummer for the best band in history are just plain stupid. He has a right to be proud.

Not to Worry. If Mike Joyce does not release the unheard tracks on his site, we will all one day have the pleasure of paying $25 to hear 2 of them packaged with 14 others we've already heard. Kudos to Mike Joyce for at least trying.

Mike is full of shit. But then again, perhaps he'll take all those who post the bitter "no new album and Morrissey is a washed up has been" posts to his site and leave this one alone! So, maybe it's a good thing.

But on the other hand, his "P.S." message was just tatty and vexatious. Just another stab in the back. And I hope that "Factor" does stop him - right in his tracks (um, pardon the pun).

i don't know what Mr Joyce's intentions were,
but i think that he should have waited until he had the tracks avaliable before putting up his site.

Mike Joyce has now committed himself to releasing the tracks (now, not later; no postponing). There is no turning back if he wants to retain some credibility among The Smiths' fanbase. BTW, I will not buy any kind of excuse: there are plenty of ways to put those songs on the Net without being sued. Mrs. Shankly, for instance, would probably do it.
Anyone who says "no, I don't want the tracks, it would hurt Morrissey's delicate feelings!" should be grabbed by the lapels and repeatedly slapped in the face until they regain some sense. Nobody should care about Morrissey's feelings any more than he does about ours. Releasing the tracks will at least provoke some kind of reaction on the complacent, passive, neglectful SPM.

Thank you to Mr.Joyce, a wonderful musician indeed, for attempting to bring additional life to the realm of the now departed, Smiths*. Mike, Don't pay any attention to the cruel comments, and to the small intellects on this board! And, to whom I think it is, that is in the way of the release of these so called tracks...Quit being so grumpy and allow us fans some refreshment!

It may be that the "who" that is preventing him from putting the songs up is the bloke running his site, by going on holiday.

Who else thinks the guy's actually got nothing??

Morrissey could kick Mike's roody-poo candy ass!
" If ya smell what the pimp is pimping!"

I think Mike needs to find his own indentity to be honest .

Morrissey and Marr have gone on to other things . Morrissey with his solo career and Johnny now fronting his own band, and Johnny's other side projects.

Mike hasn't really done anything since the Smiths split of signifcance, and he is just try use this Smiths unheard tracks to attract Smiths and Morrissey fans . These tracks are probably mixes of songs we already heard anyways.

Mike has to get his own identity , and STOP BEING MORRISSEY'S AND MARR'S SHADOW.

Morrissey and Marr have established their fan base , and he needs to move on move forward stop hanging on to past glory.

Just one last thing , if the roles were reversed and Mike Joyce was the one who left The Smiths and not Johnny Marr,Do you people really think the band would have broke up? I can tell you that answer it is a NO, they would have found another good drummer to play with them . So in the end Mike was just a drummer , and could have been replaced at any time.

Man...blind faith. It should occur to all of you that, post-Smiths, neither Morrissey not Marr recording anything as good as those records. there was a certain chemistry with the entire band. As for Joyce's anger with Morrissey, it is, I think, well justified. "The sickening greed" applies only to record companies, not singers. Just ask Spenser Cobrin what he thinks or Moz's business practices...can so many be wrong?
Morrissey is a genius...but he is not infallible...so cut the anti-Joyce histrionics...

What does Mike have to gain by putting these songs on the internet? It doesn't seem like much to me. I think it's a nice motive on his part and that the least we could do is appreciate it. And also, what is Morrissey's problem with this? As far as I can see, it wouldn't do him any harm to think about the fans for once. Or perhaps he's being motivated by money, in which case, I have absolutely no respect for him whatsoever. I'm sure he has quite enough money without this. I wouldn't care if the big deal is because Morrissey feels he owns these songs (or legally owns them or whatever) as long as he had the decency to have them released somehow, either himself, or letting Joyce release them.

I never saw moderation being so biased like this before! I wonder if those who speak in favour of Morrissey will get a -1 automatically, even! Moderators, try to remember some ethics and facts abour free speech, because to be *that* tendentious is certainly against democracy!

what's up with all these anonymous posts by all these idiots? if you people have something to say then say it with your name at the bottom!

The question of either (Mike or Morrissey) party's character is irrelevant.

The issue at hand is legal. Discussions of who they are as artists or as people are irrelevant.

I am not sure what the copyright laws in the UK are. However, in the United States copyright for a work (of art, music, photograph, text, etc.) is automatically assigned to the maker of that work at the time of creation.

However, if a person is paid to create a work for the benefit of another party (to be used in part of a larger work or for the work itself), copyright may belong to the person who has paid for the work rather than the work's creator. The creator must agree to this ownership of copyright.

Title or assignment of copyright may be transfered to another party (with some limitations, though) through various means, including payment.

If the works in question were B sides, they may not have necessarily been entered into the Smiths catalogue of works, and therefore copyright would not have been transfered when other titles were sold.

If Morrissey and Marr were the songwriters, copyright belongs to Morrissey and Marr. Though Rourke and Joyce played the tracks on the Smiths albums, they may not necessarily assume any claims on the work's ownership, but would rather be basically treated as paid employees (see above).

In total, if Mike Joyce has some Smiths tracks that he wants to post, but does not own copyright to the works (which he likely does not), he cannot do so without the express permission of the owner(s) of copyright.

Otherwise he is just plain breaking the law.

If the owner(s) of copyright do not want to post (or distribute in any way), they are entitled to stop this action.

This may be disappointing to a fan that wants access to the music, and doesn't think that it is fair for someone to deny them. But the artists have their rights for a reason.

Thank god I didn't add a personal comment as I submitted the story above. No matter what I would have said, I got shot by both sides.
Can anyone contact Andy Rourke? Maybe he's got something interesting for us, too, and won't be crucified for that!

I come from a rural area in central Georgia (USA). Growing up I was surrounded by belligerent rednecks whose only interests were fighting, killing animals, and mud bogging. You can imagine the music I was subjected to: "Bocephus", Lynard Skynard, hair pharmacy bands like Ratt. It was completely miserable for anyone with even a semblance of a brain. In 1989 I saw a t.v. show called "Nite Flight" that aired the video for "Everyday Is Like Sunday". It is no exaggeration to say that it changed my life. That beautiful voice, the sublime melody. It let me know that I had at least one ally in the world. That's how I've felt about Morrissey ever since, as I'm sure many of us do. But we cannot let our allegiance to Moz blind us to the fact that he has left a string of dissatisfied people in his wake. Mike Joyce is just one more of those. Mike seems to be aware that lots of people still feel that The Smiths are as relevant today as they were the first time we heard them. Thanks Mike.

Mike Joyce was a part of the legendary band
'the Smiths',if he was such a lousy drummer,
Morrissey and Marr surely would've replaced him,
as they did with Andy [and asked him back because
all 3 others felt the Smiths was a family and
Andy as a paryt of that family]

The financial problems is personal, only 4 guys
have a right to judge [maybe 5 , and the record
companies]

Please pray for Leon who is sleeping in the streets tonight.

Lament of the objective, totally disinterested person:

Drummers ain't gettin' no respect nowadays!

Mancurian pessimist, prole and intellectual at one person, women-and-booze-loving man with cherubic looks and those peculiarly British queerish Oscar Wildean sensibilities, creature of the eighties, but in a good sense of the word, Mike Joyce is a full-rank Smiths member, and one must put Moz-versus-Joyce well-known conflict aside and recognize the importance of a drummer, no THE DRUMMER, in the band. Hello People, wake up and smell the leather skin of a newly bought drum, you outta learn to appreciate drummers, love them, buy them beers and sousage colzones, cherish them, invite them to your crib or whatever stupid MTV word is for your flat nowadays, date them, loan them unlimited credits, and most important praise them 24/7!

John Densmore (jazzy beat, this special psychedelic Door-ish sound) was one of the architects of the Doors mystique, so Miss Maureen Tucker (NYC ambivalence, mechanical beats of the part-time IBM data entry clerk, precursors of the 90s electronics, which blends so organically good together with Lou rasp voice and Sterling Morrison guitar), she was a part of the Velvet Underground legend, even Ringo (underappreciated, idiot-savant, foolish genius) is a Beatle Giant, one of the Fabulous Four, with all entitlements this rank giveth, till his grave. And don't get me started about the Who and the Greatness of that prophet/madman/Operetta Nazi/Torturer/Rebel/The Character/musician with Big M/soulbreaker Keith Moon!!!

So Mike Joyce is a Smiths... One of the Four lads, not a part of the Lawn Mover, OH NO, not a pet pussycat playing under Moz armchair, not an Apprentice, but a Master among the Masters. Sorry, Mister Hand in Glove... You are wrong!!! (Though I like the sheer daring of your nick, with all those Velvetine Mapplethorpe wild NYC 80s connotations) Mike Joyce is tha Man, not a mouse. And no, Sorrow WOULD NOT come to Mike at the End, Oh no... Mike Joyce is a full-fledged Smith, member of the Club, exactly like Steven, Andy and Johnny the Electronic... That's r'n'r history, folks, no one could rewrite it, neither Rogan nor Moz himself... I wish Mike to settle his legal disputes with Moz, but yes, they, Joyce and Andy Rourke have a right to the Smiths legacy too! Do I wish him not to release anything without Moz & Marr approval? Perhaps, both yes and no.
Legally he, Joyce may be on the wrong side of the law (or who knows???... whatever), yet, speaking in human dimension... hey, I want to download this s***! No need to be a f*ckin' liar!
At least, I have no doubt about Mike GOOD INTENTIONS and his altruism, comparing to You Know Who!

Fox in the Snow.
P.S. No, I'm not a drummer myself, heh, heh.. And I'm a chronic liar too... Now back to my drum kit!

I'm banging on my drums, I'm banging on my drums,
I'm banging on my drums, and having lot of fun...
fun... fun...
Rock'n'Roll Heart, Lou Reed, 1977

I just wanted 2 say that I LOVE the best of Morrissey CD. It even takes the cake over Maladjusted. It's the only CD I listen 2 in my car. It is brilliant! Morrissey is smashing and brilliant - I just wanted 2 say that. Also, you know what? I don't give a toss if he ever records again because I never get bored of all the records I have. He should not settle 4 less than the millions he deserves. And, more importantly, if he ever needed more money, I'd support him! Why? Just because he is the kindest, most compassionate, and sensitive man in the world. Screw Mike Joyce - that bum who ruined Morrissey's psychological state. Mike Joyce was, is and always will be, like Morrissey said, as replaceable as a lawnmower part. Nothing more, nothing less. Morrissey - I love you, if u r reading this. I have 2 post anonymous, as I am not registered cause I have a hacker from this site. Hah - aint life grand? But it is, I, Brianne

                                                                All my best

                                                                Brianne

It didn't take this act to make me hate Mike Joyce. He is a backstabbing thief who doesn't seem to realize that he was made famous because he was chosen by 'the man' to be famous. I mean, cmon...yeah a Sinead tour and what else...yawn. Nice career man. You ruined your reputation with a huge portion of your previous fans. You have also pretty much nailed shut the chance of a Smiths reunion with your media driven malicious legal mischief. Please go away forever and never be found. Unless, of course, you want to give the man his dinero back with an apology and a box of Godiva.
Truly,
Mozzer Rocks

After some digging on the mikejoyce.com website, I've found the details to the three tracks that will be offered. These quotes come from the site itself.

TRACK 1

Rocking instrumental demo version of "Shoplifters Of TheWorld Unite And Takeover" Note only one guitar. No overdubs.
 
TRACK 2

Instrumental version of "Yes, I am Blind"

TRACK 3

Instrumental version of "Rusholme Ruffians" Featuring handclap and dubious tom-toms!

View the page here:
http://mikejoyce.com/NewFiles/audio2.html

"I'm sure you all know what/who that is...."

Eh, let's see... The person who actually wrote the songs maybe?

You know...sometimes it saddens me to see that The Smiths didn't stick it out like U2 did. I guess that has something to do with personality dynamics and the fact that Morrissey changes colors every so often. But still, of all the 80s bands that should still be together, I would have liked to have seen The Smiths performing their latest hit "Sink & Resurface" on the 2003 Grammys. Or at least The Smiths collectively receiving an award for significant impact to music. What does this have to do with Mike Joyce? Nothing....Mike, just put 10% of the track's time on your website. After all, according to your royalties contracts, you own 10% of it. Give us something, Steven won't. Or should I say, Steven will.........just another copy of Suedehead that I have already on 8 other CDs.......

Totally unrelated of course, but does anyone know where to get a lame shirt in the uk? (for humorous reasons, obviously)