When women are fired: was it sexism or hysterical whining?

[Dave]

Sexism Or Not? (http://www.portfolio.com/executives/features/2008/03/17/Sexism-or-Not-You-Decide?TID=st092007ab) If you are interested click the link for more information, links to discussions, and more detailed versions of these stories.
Sexism ... or Not? You Decide
by Miriam Datskovsky April 2008 Issue
When a successful woman suffers a professional setback, it's not always clear whether gender was a factor. Consider the five well-publicized cases below. What's the verdict?
Cast your vote (http://www.portfolio.com/services/polls/sexismornot/)

by Portfolio Staff
Condé Nast Portfolio's look at gender battles in corporate America. Read More
Executive Features
Sexism
Illustration of the word
by Harriet Rubin
Weren't we supposed to be beyond this by now? After years of progress, women's gains at work have come to a baffling halt.

http://www.portfolio.com/images/site/editorial/magazine/2008/04/sexism-zoe-cruz-inline.jpg
Zoe Cruz
The co-president of Morgan Stanley is fired by C.E.O. John Mack after the firm suffers billions of dollars in losses in the subprime-mortgage debacle.

Sexism: Cruz was the most senior woman on Wall Street, widely viewed as a leading candidate to succeed Mack. Her ouster is a huge symbolic blow to women's advancement in the financial world, especially since many prominent men at Morgan Stanley (including Mack himself) remained standing.

...Not: Cruz oversaw Morgan Stanley's fixed-income operations, so if anyone should have been punished for the bank's $3.7 billion subprime loss, it was she.

http://www.portfolio.com/images/site/editorial/magazine/2008/04/sexism-katie-couric-inline.jpg
Katie Couric
Her performance as anchor of the CBS Evening News is widely panned, and viewer ratings for the show plummet.

Sexism: Sexist attitudes may be at the heart of negative reactions to Couric, but they're disguised by code words such as celebrity, perky, and light. "The number of people who don't want news from a woman was startling," CBS chief executive Les Moonves said last June.

...Not: Couric's chatty, good-humored persona was well suited to morning shows like NBC's Today but doesn't play as well in the more serious evening time slot. This has nothing to do with gender.

http://www.portfolio.com/images/site/editorial/magazine/2008/04/sexism-judith-regan-inline.jpg
Judith Regan
She sues after being fired by News Corp.’s HarperCollins.

Sexism: Regan charged that there was a pattern within HarperCollins "of firing high-level women," though she gave no other examples. Her suit also alleged that a consultant to the publishing house attributed her success to her "golden vagina," and when she complained, "nothing was ever done."

...Not: News Corp. said Regan was dismissed for using anti-Semitic language during a conversation with a company lawyer after a publicity fiasco surrounding her plans to publish a book by O.J. Simpson about the murder of his ex-wife.

http://www.portfolio.com/images/site/editorial/magazine/2008/04/sexism-hillary-clinton-inline.jpg
Hillary Clinton
Supporters complain about her treatment on MSNBC.

Sexism: During primary season, Chris Matthews referred to Clinton as a "she-devil" and "Nurse Ratched," labeled her "shrill" and "grating," and suggested that her political success stems from her husband's infidelity. After protests from women's organizations, Matthews apologized on the air.

...Not: Sure, Matthews used some words that might be offensive. But the point about infidelity could possibly apply to a man in a similar situation. Some argue that the outrage directed at Matthews is an attempt to censor him.

http://www.portfolio.com/images/site/editorial/magazine/2008/04/sexism-lawrence-summers-inline.jpg
Lawrence Summers
As Harvard president, he suggests that innate differences between men and women may explain the scarcity of women in top-level science and engineering positions.

Sexism: Summers was basically saying that women aren't as smart as men. His comments were inappropriate for the head of one of the world's most prominent academic institutions.

...Not: Summers, who was speaking at an academic conference, was merely exercising his academic freedom. He had been asked to be provocative.

************************************************** ********
To me it's interesting that all of these are NOT sexism. So why run the story? I think that if they had called any of these sexism, they might have opened themselves to a slander lawsuit?

[5am]

To me some of them clearly are sexism, so I guess it isn't as clear cut as you think.

*

"Was it sexism or hysterical whining"- this sentence is a bit strange because the phrase "hysterical whining" is sexism!

[Buzzetta]

The idea is that if a male is substituted into each situation OR if the gender is not disclosed is it a sensible firing?

If it is then gender does not matter. Because if it does and you keep a woman around because if she were male she would have been held accountable and released (as in the case of the sub prime mortgage) you run the risk of reverse discrimination.

[Dave]

To me some of them clearly are sexism, so I guess it isn't as clear cut as you think.

*

"Was it sexism or hysterical whining"- this sentence is a bit strange because the phrase "hysterical whining" is sexism!

Thank you. Many people seem to overlook the fact that hysterical is a sexist word. I did put it in there on purpose, not trolling, exactly, but trying to whip up some interest via outrage. oh wait... ;)

the only part I wrote is the part after the **********************


The idea is that if a male is substituted into each situation OR if the gender is not disclosed is it a sensible firing?

If it is then gender does not matter. Because if it does and you keep a woman around because if she were male she would have been held accountable and released (as in the case of the sub prime mortgage) you run the risk of reverse discrimination.

Well, the problem with ALL of these issues of equality is that people cheat. The fact that she was even IN that position should speak for itself.

What I mean about cheating is that people will claim discrimination when that is not the case, and when they are clearly guilty. Then when people really are being discriminated against they sound like whiners, too.

[Buzzetta]

That raises the concepts of "Affirmative Action" in varying circumstances. To that I reply of which was told to me in Philosophy of Law: You never truly know if you can play baseball if you are given four strikes.

There are MANY people that look for an "out." They do a disservice to the progress that was made on their behalf.

[5am]

oh wait... ;)

the only part I wrote is the part after the **********************



Which is why I used a * :rolleyes::)


Thank you. Many people seem to overlook the fact that hysterical is a sexist word.



I assume you're being sarcastic so…

That's not what I said, but yes, in a cultural context it often is.

[iamkali62]

I don't care if it's a man or a woman who gets fired- I do not believe in affirmative action so I believe that the person, whatever gender, screwed up and got fired for a reason.

[SNS22]

I don't care if it's a man or a woman who gets fired- I do not believe in affirmative action so I believe that the person, whatever gender, screwed up and got fired for a reason.

Unless of course, that reason is refusing to sleep with the boss.

[iamkali62]

Unless of course, that reason is refusing to sleep with the boss.

Very funny dude!