Mixing the rough with the smooth [Archive]

craiggannon

July 11, 2008, 10:53 PM

re;Christopher Pooley: why? what's the point? since when has Morrissey become a charity organisation?
I know a couple of people who own their own keyboards and they can play them too.

haven listened back to the Hyde Park gig,and been at the Cork and Dublin gig,can somebody explain to me WHAT is he meant to be playin on the bone for the end of I want to see the boy..:confused:
And some of the fx that he is using on some of the trax??:confused::confused:its like he got a loan of a mini moog for a few weeks and feels obliged to try out every sound it can make.
bring back Mikey Farrell:)

Jamie

July 12, 2008, 02:43 AM

I downloaded the O2 boot and he apparently thought the opening of First of the Gang to Die was a freeform synth jam. Very awkward.

I'm waiting to see if Matt Walker can actually pull off a quiet song on the new album. Even when he plays with brushes, he seems to be trying his damnedest to put them through the drum head.

I was thinking he and Solomon are the equivalent of Tony & Hunt Sales. True, they did play on Lust for Life...but they were also in Tin Machine. Caveat emptor!

If you ask me, add Alain to the touring band and drop the keyboardist. Surely three guitarists (if we really "need" to keep Mr. Tobias, that is) can round out the sound. Boz is more than a dabhand at guitar effects when he's not chained to the acoustic guitar so Jesse can repeat the same feedback squall ad nauseum.

Cheers,
Jamie

King Leer

July 12, 2008, 04:59 PM

Pooley's keyboard work...too much of it sounded like 1970s zombie flick music.

Liked the piano tinkling in First of the Gang, liked the very sad Happy Birthday (did they pay royalties?)

I agree with Jamie -- get Alain back, also get Mikey back and give Matt Walker some more range. He's definitely better than the Muppets Animal that Spike was, and definitely better than Deano when he first started out, but Deano improved greatly. Matt hasn't changed from what I can tell. Solomon...I don't know, but his bass on Pigsty was nowhere near as bouncy and cool as Gary's (best bassline he ever did for Moz?)

King Leer

July 12, 2008, 05:01 PM

Oh, and who played lead guitars on the Smiths tracks at o2? Sounded good. If it was Jesse, he does a better job of that than the solo stuff, including his own!

Jamie

July 12, 2008, 08:50 PM

Oh, and who played lead guitars on the Smiths tracks at o2? Sounded good. If it was Jesse, he does a better job of that than the solo stuff, including his own!

More than likely Jesse - but that begs the question: is how he plays on a handful of Smiths songs enough justification to keep him around, if 9/10 of his compositions are subpar and he eviscerates the solo material, which should be the primary focus?

If Alain doesn't want to come back (which I really don't think is the case), understandable. It is his decision. But surely...SURELY there is a better option than Jesse Tobias? His continued employment is perhaps one of the most short-sighted, unadventurous decisions of Morrissey's career. Like I've said before, that's great that he and Morrissey are friends. But did Kirsty MacColl or Chrissie Hynde ever play in the band? Nancy Sinatra? Sparks?

Cheers,
Jamie

Kewpie

July 12, 2008, 08:58 PM

Ideally I'd like Alain back on board, but in here we're discussing about poor Kristopher Pooley who really let us down.

It's a tough job to fill the gap of Mikey Farrell, but most of us saw the live in 2008 know sadly Kristopher isn't doing well.

King Leer

July 13, 2008, 12:49 AM

No, no of course not. I just thought some of the guitar on the Marr songs sounded pretty good with headphones on. When Jesse rawks out on other songs, he does this..."squelch" thing that annoys the hell out of me. I would never say he's a lazy player in a live setting, but his energy is absolutely focused on himself with basically no regard for the audience and no sense of fun. His songs are all 2D. I liked In the Future and On the Streets and maybe one other, but that's it.

More than likely Jesse - but that begs the question: is how he plays on a handful of Smiths songs enough justification to keep him around, if 9/10 of his compositions are subpar and he eviscerates the solo material, which should be the primary focus?

King Leer

July 13, 2008, 12:53 AM

It'd be hard to fill Mikey's shoes, but as some other posters have said, after 6 months or whatever it's been he should be a lot better.

It probably didn't have a big effect on the enjoyment of o2, which seemed to go down really well for those lucky enough to be there, but listening to the recordings his playing is shambolic at best, downright clumsy at worst.

Ideally I'd like Alain back on board, but in here we're discussing about poor Kristopher Pooley who really let us down.

It's a tough job to fill the gap of Mikey Farrell, but most of us saw the live in 2008 know sadly Kristopher isn't doing well.

bobalmighty

July 13, 2008, 01:38 AM

Tin Machine wasn't that bad.

*crickets*

Pokey

July 13, 2008, 09:10 AM

Yeah I must admit im not a big fan of Pooley. His effects are just not needed, it's going back into the R2D2 noises that kept popping up on YATQ like on I like you and lazy dykes. Mikey just played what needed to be played and did it very well, as someone mentioned before, it sounds like Pooley's just been given a mini moog and is determind to find out what all those lovely buttons do at any given time in any song.

Sure he did some nice bits in the O2 gig, such as the happy birthday ending and the accordian in Why don't you find out.., but he really is sub par ... prime example is One Day Goodbye will be farewell ... as soon as Mikey left so did the awesome trumpet which gave the song some character to really dull lifeless keyboard parts.

Stanley the 2nd

July 13, 2008, 09:54 AM

Oh dear, it appears that Pooley takes over Tobias' mantle as the pub rock icon in the band. Personally I'd sack the lot of 'em and just keep the drummer and dear old Boz. I still haven't forgiven them to what they did to Billy Budd on this tour but I've been told that time is a healer. I still think the new album will be good but as far as live work is concerned I won't be darkening this particular doorway until King Alain is reinstated.

mcrickson

July 13, 2008, 04:01 PM

But did Kirsty MacColl or Chrissie Hynde ever play in the band? Nancy Sinatra? Sparks?

Cheers,
Jamie

HMMM....interesting...anyone think we could swap Kris Pooley for Ron Mael? :D
Now THAT would be fabulous key-work..

mspendl828

July 13, 2008, 08:15 PM

If Alain doesn't want to come back (which I really don't think is the case), understandable. It is his decision. But surely...SURELY there is a better option than Jesse Tobias? His continued employment is perhaps one of the most short-sighted, unadventurous decisions of Morrissey's career. Like I've said before, that's great that he and Morrissey are friends. But did Kirsty MacColl or Chrissie Hynde ever play in the band? Nancy Sinatra? Sparks?

Cheers,
Jamie

My own thoughts and opinions aside, from Morrissey's point of view, why on earth would you sack a guy who wrote you your first number one album in 12 years?

Jamie

July 15, 2008, 02:30 PM

My own thoughts and opinions aside, from Morrissey's point of view, why on earth would you sack a guy who wrote you your first number one album in 12 years?

That's a fair point, but you could also make the same case for Alain, who wrote the majority of the songs and, by general consensus here, contributed many of the stronger moments. You could also credit Tony Visconti. Or the groundswell of support Morrissey had built up from his "comeback." It would also be legitimate to say that only a very popular album by a younger band on the up (Keane - and the preceding statement is in no way an endorsement of them!) blocked You Are the Quarry from number one. The singles from YATQ also charted higher than all but one of Jesse's co-writes on RotT. Not important to me or you, likely, but perhaps to Morrissey.

It will be interesting to see how many - if any - Jesse songs are on the new album. After all, the Children in Pieces demo dates back to RotT and All You Need is Me was written no later than spring 2007.

I would also be curious to see how many Boz songs are in the pipeline beyond the two we already know about. Has anyone who frequents myspace thought to ask him any details about the new album?

Cheers,
Jamie

raincoated lover

July 15, 2008, 02:37 PM

modrevolve

July 15, 2008, 02:37 PM

Kristopher Pooley..you are the weakest link...GOODBYE!!

Kewpie

July 15, 2008, 02:57 PM

I actually love Pooley's keyboard work. I think he has a very good knowledge of the capabilites of the keys, and uses them to good effect...(overlooking First Of The Gang at the o2).

The only complaint I have with the live shows is WHY is Sister Im A Poet so slow?

At least someone appreciates Kristopher.

However, I find his skill isn't good enough because he's not very good at playing trombone/trampet which is Mikey's one of the best bits.

When I heard keyboards of First of the Gang to Die at O2, thought WTF he's ruining the song!

Not Right in the Head

July 15, 2008, 03:03 PM

However, I find his skill isn't good enough because he's not very good at playing trombone/trampet which is Mikey's one of the best bits.

Hey, his wife hates being called that!

Not Right in the Head

July 15, 2008, 03:08 PM

Keyboardists may find this interview with Kris Pooley (http://www.keyboardmag.tv/?req=1&station=kpooley) about his gear setup mildly interesting. I'm not a keyboardist.

Kewpie

July 15, 2008, 03:19 PM

Hey, his wife hates being called that!

You like being called perv lately.

Not Right in the Head

July 15, 2008, 03:22 PM

You like being called perv lately.

Lately?

oye terence

July 15, 2008, 04:31 PM

i have yet to hear his skillz live in person,but from what i have heard,i am torn,i liked what he did in "mama lay softly..." but his work on "first of the gang.." sounded more like a drunk 8 year playing a casio.

but i will try and hold back judgement till i have had the pleasure or displeasure of seeing and hearing for myself.

Jamie

July 17, 2008, 05:10 PM

WHY is Sister Im A Poet so slow?

Good question. The pace on Last of the Famous International Playboys has also been turgid. I don't know why Walker insists on playing the verses on the toms, but it really slows the song down. And the nice cross-stick shuffle between hi-hat and snare (an underrated Joyce musical moment) from the studio version has been misplaced, which reduces just about all "swing" from the track.

Funny, because in the early days, the Lads often played it TOO fast. And Sister...was probably at its live apex in 1992.

Cheers,
Jamie

Franzanna

July 18, 2008, 12:07 PM

Good question. The pace on Last of the Famous International Playboys has also been turgid. I don't know why Walker insists on playing the verses on the toms, but it really slows the song down. And the nice cross-stick shuffle between hi-hat and snare (an underrated Joyce musical moment) from the studio version has been misplaced, which reduces just about all "swing" from the track.

Funny, because in the early days, the Lads often played it TOO fast. And Sister...was probably at its live apex in 1992.

Cheers,
Jamie

I've come up with a good replacement for the new drummer - my I.T. teacher. :D He is actually fantastically quick AND accurate at drumming, and he could fill in as a guitarist if he needed to (unlikely, I know, what with the many guitarists Morrissey has).

Tomi

July 21, 2008, 11:58 PM

It will be interesting to see how many - if any - Jesse songs are on the new album. After all, the Children in Pieces demo dates back to RotT and All You Need is Me was written no later than spring 2007.
I would also be curious to see how many Boz songs are in the pipeline beyond the two we already know about. Has anyone who frequents myspace thought to ask him any details about the new album?

I know that Wiki is not the last word in accuracy, but according the lists of confirmed and unconfirmed tracks, there doesn't seem to be one single Jesse song on the album (not sure if they have overlooked "All you need is me", or it really won't appear)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Years_of_Refusal

And Warner Chappell show no new listings under Tobias, apart from "All you need is me"

http://www.warnerchappell.com/wcm_2/song_search/searchresult_2.jsp?pageNo=3&entityId=34137508618&entityType=1&searchField=&searchValue=&view=songs&entityName=Tobias%2C+Jesse+Alejandro&searchDescription=&decade=&year=0&charts=&genre=&subject=&tempo=&vocalMix=&language=&country=null&sortColumn=0&sortOrder=0&tf0=Songwriter+--+Keywords&tf1=&tf2=&tf3=&tf4=&tf5=&tf6=&tf7=&tf8=Entire+Catalog&tf9=United+Kingdom&tf10=Tobias&menu_status=songsearch&searchFormPageNo=3&from=

Bournemoz

January 6, 2009, 03:33 PM

took a bit of stick last year from some fans - maybe from those who'd become used to Mikey V Farrell.

What do we think of his performance on Years of Refusal?

For what it's worth I am most impressed with the keyboards, though of course Roger Manning played a part.

dizzywhore_1804

January 6, 2009, 03:40 PM

Whoever ruined 'Mama Lay Softly...' with a casio keyboard needs to be clipped 'round the ear.
Seem to remember in Camden last year that whoever was on keyboards made some very odd style choices on '...Playboys' and '...Boy Happy'. In fact when Morrissey left the stage on the Friday during '...Boy Happy' I thought it was because he couldn't stand the bizzarre keyboard-ing :p

I'll stick to the live versions of this brilliant song.

Kewpie

January 6, 2009, 03:45 PM

took a bit of stick last year from some fans - maybe from those who'd become used to Mikey Farrell.

What do we think of his performance on Years of Refusal?

For what it's worth I am most impressed with the keyboards, though of course Roger Manning played a part.

As you mentioned that Roger Manning played keyboards in the album, but I was very disappointed with Kristopher's contribution in last summer's gigs.

Hopefully his live performance won't be too bad.

modrevolve

January 6, 2009, 04:12 PM

are we 100% sure he is in the touring band this time around?

CrookedLittleVein

February 26, 2009, 04:48 PM

Backing vocals on Mama, Carol and Farewell.

All I know is he played keyboards for Gwen Stefani. Other than that...

Apologies if this one has already been asked, answered, debated etc.

bm20950

February 26, 2009, 04:57 PM

Isn't he the slightly odd looking fellow who has been doing Mikey Farrel's job live?

Maurice E

February 26, 2009, 05:04 PM

he's the keyboard player in Morrissey's live band.
yeah, I also noticed he'd done the BVs on YOR.
guess he's taken Alain Gordon Whye's place in that department...

leastlikelyto

February 26, 2009, 05:20 PM

Him right?
http://forums.morrissey-solo.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7408&stc=1&d=1235668827

King Leer

February 26, 2009, 05:58 PM

Jamie

February 26, 2009, 06:24 PM

I think there is an error in the credits with regard to the backing vocals. To my ear, it sounds like a different voice harmonizes with Morrissey on "you're gonna miss me when I'm gone" in All You Need Is Me. So, I wonder if it should be credited to 5 and not 6 (Carol, which seemingly has no discernible backing vocals - minus the dog barking!).

Also irritating that Mike Farrell is not properly credited for playing on That's How People Grow Up, which was recorded in Texas during the 2007 tour. At least that is how the credit read on the original single.

Considering that Alain recorded his backing vocals for either YATQ or RotT (can't recall which) in one day according to an older anecdote, I find it a bit odd that they brought in the replacement tour keyboard player to sing a few minor bits rather than enlist Alain. Can't imagine he would have said no.

Cheers,
Jamie

jesuisbryony

February 26, 2009, 06:28 PM

Carol, which seemingly has no discernible backing vocals - minus the dog barking!

I think the 'la da da oh' bits are a different voice. :)

Interesting Thug

February 26, 2009, 07:45 PM

He's the fucking waster with a trombone live.

mcrickson

February 26, 2009, 10:28 PM

He looks like Zane Lowe in that shot. Pooley is very hit and miss live, it seems.

Here's Roger Manning's page (http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=261273740) on myspace. I guess he hasn't wanted to or wasn't able to go on tour. He'd have to cut his hair if he did, which might be another reason. Seems like a talented chap.

Roger Manning is strictly a session musician. I'm not aware that he has toured at all. Correct me if I'm wrong :)

I think there is an error in the credits with regard to the backing vocals. To my ear, it sounds like a different voice harmonizes with Morrissey on "you're gonna miss me when I'm gone" in All You Need Is Me. So, I wonder if it should be credited to 5 and not 6 (Carol, which seemingly has no discernible backing vocals - minus the dog barking!).

I believe AYNIM was recorded prior to Pooley's recruitment, was it not?

I think the 'la da da oh' bits are a different voice. :)

Indeed -- I had thought about this earlier in trying to find out where in the track his voice was. I came to the conclusion that since the voice at that particular point had a specific panning technique applied to it, which induces my hypothesis that in the stereo mix, Moz's voice comes to one side and Pooley's comes to the other. I'm assuming the same goes for ODGWBF, which he has also been creditted with, although its difficult to discern for sure. I'm assuming its the studio panned "sha-ta, sha-ta-ta"s on which Pooley takes an appearance. Cann anyone clarify for sure?

King Leer

February 27, 2009, 03:47 AM

That is correct, but not being from the music industry I'm never sure what it means. Once you become a "session musician" are you self-banned from touring? Is it something printed on your musician's license? If a session musician decides to join a tour once in their life, do they lose said title?

Sorry for the tangent, just never understood the concept.

So what exactly are the tracks/moments we agree have backing vocals that are not Morrissey's own?

Roger Manning is strictly a session musician. I'm not aware that he has toured at all. Correct me if I'm wrong :)

Jamie

February 27, 2009, 05:32 AM

So what exactly are the tracks/moments we agree have backing vocals that are not Morrissey's own?

Contrary to what was said by others above, to my ears, the only ones are Mama and the line in AYNIM. The scatting in Carol and Farewell sound like vintage Morrissey vocalisms to me. Skull is pretty clearly Morrissey.

For that matter, I'm also confused as to why Mark Isham is credited with trumpet on Paris. It sure sounds like Boz's clarinet (which also isn't credited on Birthday).

Cheers,
Jamie

sharonanigans

March 14, 2009, 03:13 AM

wow. Y'all don't like change, do you?

The Seeker of Good Songs

April 3, 2009, 08:28 PM

Am listening to the BBC Radio Theater 2009-02-11 - London, UK recording; has the keyboard effect during "Mama" been a staple at the live shows?

The Seeker of Good Songs

April 3, 2009, 08:46 PM

why was my question about a specific incident in the "2009-02-11 -London, UK recording" merged with a thread that started nearly a year ago (July 2008)

http://forums.morrissey-solo.com/showpost.php?p=1129214&postcount=44
"Am listening to the BBC Radio Theater 2009-02-11 - London, UK recording; has the keyboard effect during "Mama" been a staple at the live shows?"

merged with

http://forums.morrissey-solo.com/showthread.php?t=88533
"Christopher Pooley: why? what's the point? since when has Morrissey become a charity organisation?
I know a couple of people who own their own keyboards and they can play them too."

There may be a slight tangent to the two but that's about it.