Twins unwittingly got married

[Buzzetta]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080112/ap_on_fe_st/britain_married_twins

LONDON - Twins who were separated at birth got married without realizing they were brother and sister, a lawmaker said, urging more information be provided on birth certificates for adopted children. A court annulled the British couple's union after they discovered their true relationship, Lord David Alton said.

"Everyone has a right to knowledge about their lineage, genealogy and identity. And if they don't, then it will lead to cases of incest," Alton told The Associated Press during a telephone interview Friday.

Alton first revealed details of the unusual case last month during a five-hour debate about a bill that would change regulations about human embryology.

"I was recently involved in a conversation with a High Court judge who was telling me of a case he had dealt with," Alton said according to a transcript of the Dec. 10 debate. "It involved the normal birth of twins who were separated at birth and adopted by separate parents.

"They were never told that they were twins. They met later in life and felt an inevitable attraction, and the judge had to deal with the consequences of the marriage that they entered into and all the issues of their separation."

Alton gave no additional details and would not reveal the name of the judge who told him about the case.

The High Court's Family Division declined to discuss or confirm Alton's account about the twins.

Alton, an independent legislator who works at Liverpool's John Moores University, said the siblings' inadvertent marriage raises the wider issue of the importance of strengthening the rights of children to know the identities of their biological parents, including kids who were born through in vitro fertilization.

Under British law, only a mother has to be named on a birth certificate. Such certificates also are not required to identify births that result from IVF or to identify the sperm donor.

In addition, British law does not require parents to ever tell children that they were the result of donated sperm.

Alton believes this should be changed.

Alton said he favors an amendment to the Human Fertility and Embryology bill — which is still being debated in the House of Lords — that would require birth certificates of children born from donated sperm to say that and to identify the genetic father.

Referring to the twins' case, he said: "If you start trying to conceal someone's identity, sooner or later the truth will come out. And if you don't know you are biologically related to someone, you may become attracted to them and tragedies like this may occur."

I will let all of you raise the questions...

[vicarinatutugal]

It has been all over the papers, someone said to me today, but would they not think, wow we have the same birthday, things like that.
Its a very very sad case, I can not even imagine how they must be feeling.
twins should not be split up, end of.

[chica]

Under British law, only a mother has to be named on a birth certificate. Such certificates also are not required to identify births that result from IVF or to identify the sperm donor.[/B]

In Trinidad there was a family
With much confusion as you will see
It was a mama and a papa, and a boy who was grown
Who wanted to marry and have a wife of his own

He found a young girl, that suited him nice
And went to his papa to ask his advice
His papa said son, I have to say no
This girl is your sister but your mama don't know

Woe is me, shame and scandal in the family
Woe is me, shame and scandal in the family

A week went by and the summer came 'round
And soon the best cook in the island he found
He went to his papa to name the date
But papa shook his head and to him he said
You can't marry this girl, I have to say no
This girl is your sister but your mama don't know

Woe is me, shame and scandal in the family
Woe is me, shame and scandal in the family

He went to his mama and covered his head
And told his mama what his papa had said
His mama she laughed, she said go, man, go
Your daddy ain't your daddy, but your daddy don't know

Woe is me, shame and scandal in the family
Woe is me, shame and scandal in the family

[Not Right in the Head]

A new law is needed just because of this one case? Forgive me for not doing my homework, but how many other cases like this can anybody think of in, say, the last 100 years? It's unfortunate, and awkward, but really, does The Government really need to do more to prevent this?

/polygamy should be legalized, too, because the best punishment for it is having more than one wife.

[Buzzetta]

A new law is needed just because of this one case? Forgive me for not doing my homework, but how many other cases like this can anybody think of in, say, the last 100 years? It's unfortunate, and awkward, but really, does The Government really need to do more to prevent this?

/polygamy should be legalized, too, because the best punishment for it is having more than one wife.

wow lol

[Dave]

http://i17.tinypic.com/6sqsuag.gif

[bogdana]

i think this was made into too big a deal. honestly, if no one had ever found out, they'd probably have been okay. THere's a chance they could have messed up kids. but there's also a chance everyone would have turned out alright. people who aren't related can have super messed up children. and people who are first cousins get married every single day in saudi arabia and pakistan and no one blinks an eye.
It worked for Adam and Eve, supposedly?

[Not Right in the Head]

It worked for Adam and Eve, supposedly?

That's a really interesting point. Someday, in the not too distant future, are governments going to come up with laws pertaining to relations between two (or more!) clones of the same organism? Would that be more like incest, or masturbation? Or should we come up with a new term for it, like "nasturbation"?

Would phrases like "Go fuck yourself" take on totally new, and uncomfortably weird, connotations?

[Buzzetta]

That's a really interesting point. Someday, in the not too distant future, are governments going to come up with laws pertaining to relations between two (or more!) clones of the same organism? Would that be more like incest, or masturbation? Or should we come up with a new term for it, like "nasturbation"?

Would phrases like "Go fuck yourself" take on totally new, and uncomfortably weird, connotations?

Now say that in the voice of Randall
http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/clerks%20ii.jpg

[hatfull]

It has been all over the papers, someone said to me today, but would they not think, wow we have the same birthday, things like that.
Its a very very sad case, I can not even imagine how they must be feeling.
twins should not be split up, end of.
that was my first thought: the twins shouldn't have been split up and adopted individually.

[sweet and tender hooligan]

First of all twins should NEVER be sperated- i was just reading "Blood Brothers" and thinking that.
I don't understand how that happened. Does it not say on your birth certificate that you are twin- i'm sure it's says on my one. Do you not need your birth certificate to get married?
In an odd way it is rather sweet that they managed to find each other.

[Buzzetta]

This topic came up tonight when I went out. My friend's wife brought up a good point. How does one deal with the issue that they finally found their long lost twin and deal with the awkwardness of trying to establish a relationship with that twin while keeping the knowledge that they had sex with their twin?

It is sad in a way.

[Hellie]

Its a wonder this kind of thing doesn,t happen more often with all the donated sperm that goes on.

A short while ago i was reading a magazine article about this bloke who split up from his girlfriend when he was very young and went to live and work abroad.Many years later he went back to his hometown and started a relationship with a girl half his age in the local pub.turned out to be his daughter by that relationship.:sick:

[Not Right in the Head]

Does it not say on your birth certificate that you are twin- i'm sure it's says on my one.

It doesn't on my girls' birth certificates.

[Jose]

Its a wonder this kind of thing doesn,t happen more often with all the donated sperm that goes on.

A short while ago i was reading a magazine article about this bloke who split up from his girlfriend when he was very young and went to live and work abroad.Many years later he went back to his hometown and started a relationship with a girl half his age in the local pub.turned out to be his daughter by that relationship.:sick:

:eek:

[chica]

Many years later he went back to his hometown and started a relationship with a girl half his age in the local pub.turned out to be his daughter by that relationship.:sick:

Serves him right... perv :mad:

[bogdana]

In an odd way it is rather sweet that they managed to find each other.
i know, i thought that, too. what are the odds? well if it helps anyone deal with the story, those two are no more genetically similar than any singly born brothers and sisters.


Its a wonder this kind of thing doesn,t happen more often with all the donated sperm that goes on.

actually it more than likely does happen on occasion. Sperm donors identities are even more protected than adoptions.

I'd just like to also say that if twins are split up and live happy, healthy lives, then no harm, no foul. It would be nice for people to keep siblings together but it isn't always feasible. They probably had brothers or sisters in their adoptive homes. If I found out tomorrow I had a long lost sister or brother, I'd think, whoa, sweet! But i wouldn't mourn, bitch and moan about lost childhood years. I had three siblings. I didn't miss out on anything. except my own childhood since i was the oldest but thats a totally different topic.

[PregnantForTheLastTime]

All I have to say is that I was telling my husband about this case, and he said, "Well, didn't they think it was odd that they looked exactly alike?"

And that's funny, because he is usually not an airhead. Something must have gone to his head.

[vicarinatutugal]

i think this was made into too big a deal. honestly, if no one had ever found out, they'd probably have been okay. THere's a chance they could have messed up kids. but there's also a chance everyone would have turned out alright. people who aren't related can have super messed up children. and people who are first cousins get married every single day in saudi arabia and pakistan and no one blinks an eye.
It worked for Adam and Eve, supposedly?

first cousins can marry in scotland.

[Hellie]

Yes its legal in the UK for first cousins to marry.Frankly its totally abhorrent.I mean my sisters children and mine play together.what if they were to marry?:eek:They are blood kin.

Its an outdated law that needs changing.

[Not Right in the Head]

first cousins can marry in scotland.


Yes its legal in the UK for first cousins to marry.Frankly its totally abhorrent.I mean my sisters children and mine play together.what if they were to marry?:eek:They are blood kin.

Its an outdated law that needs changing.

I disagree. Yes, it's an abhorrent idea to me, personally (you'd agree if you'd ever seen my relatives!), but I say that if it's consensual, government has no right to intrude. No, it's not like any other love...

Yes, you can take my argument as far as it goes: polygamy, homosexual, May/December, whatever. None of anybody's business, as long as it's consensual.

[bikubesong]

WOW :eek:

[Buzzetta]

I disagree. Yes, it's an abhorrent idea to me, personally (you'd agree if you'd ever seen my relatives!), but I say that if it's consensual, government has no right to intrude. No, it's not like any other love...

Yes, you can take my argument as far as it goes: polygamy, homosexual, May/December, whatever. None of anybody's business, as long as it's consensual.

At least with the same set of grandparents it would make Christmas shopping a lot easier and cheaper. That's key!

[chica]

I disagree. Yes, it's an abhorrent idea to me, personally (you'd agree if you'd ever seen my relatives!), but I say that if it's consensual, government has no right to intrude. No, it's not like any other love...

Yes, you can take my argument as far as it goes: polygamy, homosexual, May/December, whatever. None of anybody's business, as long as it's consensual.

Aww, NRITH, you're so libertarian :D

[Not Right in the Head]

At least with the same set of grandparents it would make Christmas shopping a lot easier and cheaper. That's key!

Always a plus!


Aww, NRITH, you're so libertarian :D

On personal issues, yes.

[bogdana]

I disagree. Yes, it's an abhorrent idea to me, personally (you'd agree if you'd ever seen my relatives!), but I say that if it's consensual, government has no right to intrude. No, it's not like any other love...

Yes, you can take my argument as far as it goes: polygamy, homosexual, May/December, whatever. None of anybody's business, as long as it's consensual.

you're right. i agree. i would express displeasure in it in my own home but far be it from me to pass laws on who someone can marry. we have too many of those laws as it is.


At least with the same set of grandparents it would make Christmas shopping a lot easier and cheaper. That's key!

Word! LMAO

[mar2d2]

when i lived in argentina, during the nineties, a couple that had been married for like 10 years and had kids, found out that they were twins. i can't rememeber how they found out, but they were on the telly all the time and people kept on asking them if they were getting a divorce, which they weren't.
they were so annoying, i don't know why i remember this family portrait of them with their kids in the Andes. it's been haunting me for years. i remember staring at the picture and gagging at the thought of kissing my brother or knowing that my mother was kissing her husband/brother. GROOOOOSSSS

is this English couple still together?

[Corrissey]

:confused: As a twin, why am I just now reading this thread. I can understand the attraction, chemistry, soul mate thing (my bro and I are very close) and can't imagine ending up in a sitch like that. It's a very bittersweet story. Everyone makes good points here.


Its a very very sad case, I can not even imagine how they must be feeling. twins should not be split up, end of.

I know, the realm of emotions...:eek: :) :confused: :sick: :tears: and I agree-keep the kids together at all costs.


Does it not say on your birth certificate that you are twin- i'm sure it's says on my one. Do you not need your birth certificate to get married? In an odd way it is rather sweet that they managed to find each other.

I just checked my birth certif and it says "If twin or triplet, was child born..." then there are 3 check boxes for 1st, 2nd and 3rd. Mine is checked 2nd. And this was Hawaii 1966. Yet, twins aren't noted on NRitH's girls certifs :confused: Why would they have changed procedures? Maybe I missed a story.

I also needed my birth certif to get my marriage license. I realize that the laws are different everywhere... still, having 'proper' documentation would avoid these kinds of stories/happenings. It's not 'government control', it's just common sense.


honestly, if no one had ever found out, they'd probably have been okay. THere's a chance they could have messed up kids. but there's also a chance everyone would have turned out alright.

Amen, sistah


How does one deal with the issue that they finally found their long lost twin and deal with the awkwardness of trying to establish a relationship with that twin while keeping the knowledge that they had sex with their twin?

THAT is the real question :confused:

[bogdana]

did you know there are 64 trillion ways for people's genes to combine to create a child? cool, huh?

[Corrissey]

did you know there are 64 trillion ways for people's genes to combine to create a child? cool, huh?

that's why it's called 'the miracle of life' :)

[bogdana]

that's why it's called 'the miracle of life' :)

hey, its not a miracle, its math! LOL:sweet:

[chica]

A world full of little Danes! :D


Cryos, a Danish sperm bank, is probably the world’s largest supplier of sperm. It sells to clinics in nearly 50 countries, has more than 200 donors on its books at any one time and distributes more than 10,000 units of semen each year, resulting in about 1,000 pregnancies. It cannot export to countries where anonymous donation is illegal, including Sweden, Norway, the Netherlands, Britain, Switzerland and Australia, or to Italy, where it is illegal to use donor sperm. Some clinics in these countries now treat patients at home and fly them to Denmark for insemination. In 2001 the company opened an American offshoot, Scandinavian Cryobank (slogan: “Congratulations! It’s a Viking”), which, like other American sperm banks, offers sperm direct to customers via an online catalogue. Its eye-catching offers include exclusive worldwide rights to a donor for $75,000.

http://blog.moschettilaw.com/2007/01/buying_babies_bit_by_bit.html

[Buzzetta]

that's why it's called 'the miracle of life' :)

Let me clarify this miracle by deferring to "The Onion" NRITH is grinning from ear to ear over this one....

http://www.theonion.com/content/news/miracle_of_birth_occurs_for_83

[Not Right in the Head]

Let me clarify this miracle by deferring to "The Onion" NRITH is grinning from ear to ear over this one....

http://www.theonion.com/content/news/miracle_of_birth_occurs_for_83

:D :guitar:

[bogdana]

wait, illegal in some countries to have donor sperm? That is so ridiculous. Donor sperm is so much better and safer then picking up some random guy at a bar and getting donor sperm that way, lol!

"Looking down into this precious child's red, screaming face, so barely distinguishable from all the other wailing children surrounding him on all sides, one is reminded of just how special and unique the gift of life really is." HAHAHAA!

[Buzzetta]

We should have an Onion thread.

[Not Right in the Head]

We should have an Onion thread.

I'm game.

http://www.theonion.com/content/files/images/statshot2.jpg

and

"New Speaker Of The House Caught Wearing Women’s Clothing (http://www.theonion.com/content/news/new_speaker_of_the_house_caught)"

[Not Right in the Head]

Onions give me wind!

That's OK; these forums haven't seen much breaking news lately...

[chica]

wait, illegal in some countries to have donor sperm? That is so ridiculous. Donor sperm is so much better and safer then picking up some random guy at a bar and getting donor sperm that way, lol!

Morality and safe sex rarely go hand in hand, didn't you know? :D