Some of my best friends are Deer!

[Bobmozza]

WOOD you believe it?

*dadshow joke apologies and groans in equal measure*

[Lil Rob - The Greatest Cholo/Pop Icon]

> WOOD you believe it?

> *dadshow joke apologies and groans in equal measure*

You Brits!! How I envy so much the wit of you people. Now your teeth on the other hand ... that's a different story. Fuck rebuilding Iraq, we need to send a shitload of our finest dentists over to England to help this cavity ridden country.

[HA!!!!]

LOL @ British Teeth!!!

[Mr.Improper PIMp to the NHLPA]

Hahahahahahahahahaha thats too fuckin funny...dont forget...we need to send million(and the PIMP means MILLIONS) of bars of soap there as well...wash yourselves people...for the love of god,you stinky fucks.

[HA!!!!!!!!]

LOL @ British B.O.

[bobmozza]

You should do, Americans didn't produce Monty Python. Or The Young Ones. Or Peter Cook and Dudley Moore... or anything in fact of much amusement except Woody Allen- and most of you don't 'get' him because you're too stupid.

As for the teeth comments, fuck me last time I looked it wasn't the 18th century you mouldering fuckwits. I happened to receive all of my orthodontic treatment for FREE which is more than would have been the case in the good ol' USA since you don't HAVE free healthcare do you? GOD BLESS AMERICA!

Oh yes and while we're at it, invading a country just so you can get some more oil for your evil petrol companies does not constitute 'liberation'. And inserting your own economic agenda within the country you have vanquished afterwards does not constitue 'rebuilding'.

I WAS BEING DAFT and IRONIC YOU IMBECILES!!! AND I EVEN QUALIFIED IT WITH MY *OWN* GROANS TO DEMONSTRATE THIS FACT!

And for the record, perfect teeth do not make you a better person. But as an image-obsessed dickhead yank you will probably find that concept hard to grasp.

So before you go and insult the nation that created yours by kicking the fucking idiot puritans out of our country in the first place, please remember to respect your betters.

> You Brits!! How I envy so much the wit of you people. Now your teeth on
> the other hand ... that's a different story. Fuck rebuilding Iraq, we need
> to send a shitload of our finest dentists over to England to help this
> cavity ridden country.

[who else but me!]

Your nation invaded Iraq too you daft wanker.

Your notions regarding the war are incomplete. You are wrong about your nation's role in this conflict. Mr. Blair is a warmonger. He came to the United States repeatedly, met with President Bush repeatedly, and spoke before the U.S. Congress repeatedly, urging us to invade Iraq. Tony Blair, along with lies from British intelligence (an oxymoron) stated that Iraq was attempting to obtain, or rather had obtained, nuclear materials, in preparation to make a nuclear bomb. This was one of the main reasons the U.S. decided (along with Britain) to invade Iraq. Tony Blair is the biggest sellout of all time. To stand with President Clinton and champion the causes of the disenfranchised on one hand, and then to stand beside that Texan fool on the other, and send those same poor off to war, is the very epitome of hypocrisy. Mr. Blair & Mr. Bush, should both be tried for war crimes, and publicly hung for the mass murder of thousands of Iraqis, many of whom were mere civilians. The U.N. weapons inspectors recently reentered Iraq and found no weapons of mass destruction. Accordingly, both the British public and the American people were lied to, and the reasons given for attacking Iraq were fabricated. As a consequence, Mr. Blair & Mr. Bush should now be held accountable for their crimes.

[Chill]

That was the funniest description of how this country was founded that I've ever read. You rock.

[Lil Rob - The Greatest Cholo/Pop Icon]

I applaud the balls you have to make such a bold claim about my crazy country. I seem to agree with most of your politics. But as far as teeth not making a person, haven't you ever heard of Kennedy's Law??? Kennedy's Law, named after former U.S. President John F. Kennedy, posits that a person's worth is essentially based on how straight and pearly white that person's teeth are.

[Katy]

> Mr. Blair & Mr. Bush, should both be tried
> for war crimes, and publicly hung for the mass murder of thousands of
> Iraqis, many of whom were mere civilians.

I find your desciption of the many Iraqi war dead as "mere civilians" almost beneath contempt.

Just because these people do not hold a military position and do not have an identity card doesn't mean that their deaths are any less important than soldiers (who have difficult lives and are are only serving their country but also have benefits such as government paid for free travel).

This is not a comment about the differences between the US and the UK, it is about common humanity.

Shame on You!

[Small Paul]

> You should do, Americans didn't produce Monty Python. Or The Young Ones.
> Or Peter Cook and Dudley Moore... or anything in fact of much amusement
> except Woody Allen- and most of you don't 'get' him because you're too
> stupid.

You are a bigoted person and I am writing from the United Kingdom. Python and Cook were (intermittantly) brilliant but if you honestly think that the USA cannot produce humour to match "The Young Ones" your brain should be replaced.

There were more genuine laughs in a below average episode of Seinfeld (Top rated show in the US when "Keeping Up Appearances" was captivating British audiences) than in a whole series of Elton's juvenilia.

[your worst nightmare]

Main Entry: 3mere
Pronunciation: 'mir
Function: adjective
Inflected Form(s): superlative mer·est
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin merus; akin to Old English Amerian to purify and perhaps to Greek marmairein to sparkle -- more at MORN
Date: 1536
1 : having no admixture : PURE
2 obsolete : being nothing less than : ABSOLUTE
3 : being nothing more than
- mere·ly adverb

p.s. is your name Katy Krassner and do you work for Sanctuary Records in New York, and is your email:

katy.krassner@sanctuarygroup.com

And is your phone number

(212) 599-2757

And is it not a fact that I am better at doing your job, as contact person for Moz than you are?

And is it not true that I am MUSLIM, and you are not?

Therefore, what can we reasonably conclude, aside from the fact that you are an incompetent arse?

We can conclude that you should:

FUCK OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Katy]

I'm confused regarding your point about the word "mere". If you are claiming that "Who else but me's" disgusting comment would have been more acceptable had he/she said that many the Iraqi dead were "only" civilians, then I'm afraid I disagree, as I'm sure will most decent human beings.

> p.s. is your name Katy Krassner and do you work for Sanctuary Records in
> New York, and is your email:

> katy.krassner@sanctuarygroup.com And is your phone number

> (212) 599-2757

I'm not going to confirm whether or not I am this person.

> And is it not a fact that I am better at doing your job, as contact person
> for Moz than you are?

See above

> And is it not true that I am MUSLIM, and you are not?

I've no idea whether you are a muslim, I'm prepared to take your word for it. I am not.

> Therefore, what can we reasonably conclude, aside from the fact that you
> are an incompetent arse?

> We can conclude that you should:

> FUCK OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm not sure how this conclusion follows from the ideas presented in your post; I doubt whether many will be convinced.

[Chill]

Katy, while I will stop short of calling you an idiot, I think your anger is severely misplaced. "Mere," when used in this context was used to reinforce the idea that the Iraqis who were killed were not all soldiers. That is, it was used as a sort of condemnation of both governments for having engaged in a war that led to the slaughter of innocent civilians. The word was not used in a denigrating fashion at all.

-An English Major (not a major in the military -- the mere civilian kind)

[Prince William]

You Brits think it very clever to incessantly bash Americans via this website, a site run by an American, living in the same city as our favorite Mancunian.

You think very poorly of us and of our nation. Could it be that you are simply jealous that the UK has been relegated to near 3rd world status, that you have almost no influence and no power? Could it be that you are jealous of our influence in technology, science, medicine, politics, world affairs, pop culture, etc.? Could it be that you have an inferiority complex that you mask in the form of all manner of put downs, low blows, and gross insults (i.e. acting superior), to simply mask the inferiority you feel inside?

OK, the UK is not a 3rd world country, but your quality of life is lower than ours, your trains are shit, your flats and homes, smaller. In addition, while a dollar is worth nearly half of one Pound Sterling, I've always found that the cost of things in the UK is the same in Pounds as it is in the USA in dollars, so your buying power is much less. The man who earns 50,000 pounds a year has the same buying power in the UK as the man who earns 50,000 dollars a year in the USA. I find that disgusting and sad. You are getting ripped off every time you make a bloody purchase. And, it is criminal. As zealously capitalistic as you see us, at least there is a reward for working hard in America. There is not a proper reward system for working hard in England. Perhaps, this is why so many people in the UK are on the Dole, a notion, I took from you.

While your latest rant has focused on many of the things you loathe about America, nothing new for you, why do you waste your time musing about a nation that you think is so terrible? The question is: Why are you obsessed with America? Why are the people of the U.K. obsessed with America? I am not obsessed with England, though I like the UK in general, very much. I have been to England several times, and once spent a month backpacking through the UK. By contrast, I am certain that despite all your lies that will come after this post, you have never set foot in America, or if you have, you were here once for a week. As a result, you have no idea what you are talking about and therefore you cannot speak intelligently about America, because you are only regurgitating that which you have read and been told by a particular segment of the English masses.

Before I begin dissect your latest rant, and all the arguments that you will make after (since I've heard it all before), let me say this. I could also rant on incessantly about your colonial ways, particularly your nation's raping of the Indian Sub-Contintent. I too could talk of your nation, a nation without any cuisine to speak of, where the tourist finds himself/herself eating the most greasy fish and chips and surviving on dairy milk Cadbury chocolate, as all you have to offer is things made with kidneys, livers, and all other internal organs of animals, including the intestines of a sheep, though of course you blame that entirely on the Scots. My point is that there are plenty of bad things to say about the UK and the United States. However, there are more negative things to say about the cold and dreary island with God awful weather that you live on, simply because your history is longer, as you so rightly point out. From the tyranny of kings & queens long gone to present day, there is enough to bludgeon you with dear friend. Oh yes, there is plenty, for your history may be no more sordid than our history, but it is longer, hence I reiterate, there is more to find fault with.

Anticpating your dial-a-cliche arguments then, let me say this:

1) Culture - we have one, but it is not as long as yours.

2) Grotesquely obese bodies - many Americans are fat it is true, and many more are not, but at least unlike your poverty stricken nation, we have enough to eat, while you are starving.

3) IQ's & Nobel Prizes - our IQ's are no less than yours and we have won many Nobel prizes. Take a look at this year's winners, for example. How many Americans do you see? How many Brits. do you see?

4) A mentally handicapped illiterate President - yes this is true.

5) All we have is lame Tony Blair.. the most defiant thing he did was merely go against the opinions of the British people.

You are wrong about Mr. Blair. He is a warmonger.

6) Corporate capitalism - your nation is no less interested in making money than my nation. Moreover, being wealthy or striving for it, is no sin.

7) Racist, bigoted, and prejudiced political figures that tell asylum seekers to go fuck off - And yet the fact remains that it is harder to get British citizenship and be a subject of the Queen than it is to get American citizenship. Just ask Mr. Mohammed Al Fayed. We, in America, have our fair share of Pakistanis, Indians, Vietnamese, Korean, Japanese, Chinese, Mexican, South American, Central American, Thai, Philippino, such that unlike your racist arse, we don't lump & clump all "Asians" or all Latinos together. We are THE MOST diverse nation on Earth. Whites are no longer the majority in America. Statistics show that the USA is 51% people of color, 49% Caucasian.

8] No history to speak of - that's an outright lie. And yes, as you so rightly point out, we did kick your ass in the Revolutionary War, and saved you again in WWI, and again in WWII. Have you heard of the Marshall plan? As a result, you owe us a debt that can never be repaid, so when you tell us to think of your nation helping to create our nation, hence that we should be grateful, also think about how we helped you and reciprocate that gratitude.

9) Tax systems that fuck the poor and give to the rich - Right, and it is not so different in England. Moreover, having more than 1/2 your wages garnished by taxes is both criminal & egregious. As for your comments about discrimination, you live in the most discriminatory nation on the face of the earth. In the Oxford English Dictionary, alongside the definition for discrimination, there should be an imprint of the Union Jack.

10) Fascism going on rampantly - ditto for the UK. Just ask the Pakistanis in Salford.

11) While many Americans, do not think for themselves, I do, to the extent that I can. Nobody fully thinks for himself when bombarded by media, magazines, newspapers, office chatter, the internet, family, friends, every single day. Other people help to shape our views, and we to shape their views. I do not simply regurgitate what this corporate media and fuckwit president want me to believe. I don't believe so much as a word he says.

12) Amazing that you are our biggest ally. I would think it was Israel. Nation full of ungrateful limey wankers that you are who do nothing but belittle us.

13) You are vegetarian or vegan, hence you don't support the meat industry, correct? Good. If everyone lived as I do, nobody in America would purchase albums by Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera, 50 Cent or Eminmem, or anything on the Top 40 charts. They would never watch television at all, because I don't own one. I read, I go on the internet, or take a walk. If I feel the need to see something on a screen, I go to the movies. They would never buy 99.9% of the American newspapers & magazines out there, for I don't. They would never watch American football, American baseball, or drink American beer, for I do none of these things. They would never watch the Superbowl, because I don't. I'd rather watch an Arsenal match on Sky Sports, if I had a TV, and a satelite dish. The point is not to each his own, but rather that you do what you can do in the way that you live. And in living with some integrity, you go to bed, or wake up, knowing that you don't support XYZ things, and that your life reflects that. And that's the best you can do. Knowing what is going on is all well and good, changing it is futile, mate. The corporations who run our governments and our news media have nearly all the power. Check back in with me when you are older, wiser, and more jaded.

14) But the difference between America and the UK, you see, is that most of us did not BELIEVE these lies, whereas the American people willingly believed it, assuming wrongly that anyone in power would be telling the truth. The Americans need to learn to question their government, as does their media, which is what WE do and what our MEDIA does.

More lies. Nearly 50% of Americans were against the war before it started. Get off your high horse and your superiority complex. Your people and media are no more informed than ours. In fact, you are worse, as the BBC is government run and government owned, and our television stations and newspapers are not. American approval for the war only went up when it looked like we were winning, after the air strike campaign began. Now, that Americans are dying every day, Bush's approval ratings have never been lower.

15) There is NO COUNTRY in this world more interested in making money, ripping people off, capitalising globally, forcing people in undeveloped countries to work slave labour for virtually nothing (in their effort to save money), than America. The American source of joy and pride is wealth.. whereas other countries pride themselves more on other things.. intelligence, for example.

More lies & rhetoric. No nation on this Earth prides themselves on intelligence. As if the UK, does not force people in 3rd world nations into slave labor. Give me a break, you mastered it and taught us by your colonial, imperial, ways. This is the epitome of the Pot calling the kettle Black.

16) Our comedians are much more funny than yours, for our comedians humor is universal, whereas your comedians are only understood by people on your island, which is why your situation comedies are not translated into 157 different languages, and wanted in 157 nations. When you produce a show like Seinfeld, give me a ring, ok. By contrast, Monty Python and Fawlty towers were crap.

17) The average English family is nor more or less enlightened that the average American one, which is to say almost completely unenlightened.

In conclusion, it is too bad that you are incapable of going so much as day, let alone a fortnight without demeaning us, because then you would have nothing to talk about other than how the British Secret Services & The Royal Family actually conspired to, and then eventually murdered, Princess Diana.

[The World Won't Listen]

Katy, I am sorry for being so hard on you, when you have been, always civil, businesslike, and professional towards me, even if I do think that the CEO of Sanctuary, Merck Mercuriadis, is a bit more accesible. But then he can be, he runs the company!

How you could have misread my post, in the manner in which you did, is unfamthomable to me. It was clearly a post against the war in Iraq, against the American & British lead campaign, and for the Iraqi people. But no matter, to err is human. I do it all the time!

I am quite certain that you are basically told to not pay too much attention to fans of any artist on your label. The only difference between these fans & I, is that....either I'm a marketing genius when it comes to Moz, or more likely, I am willing to find out who the various people in power are, suggest ideas to them directly, and put things in play. Morrissey signings, VH-1, Rolling Stone, and more, they were all MY IDEAS, Katy. I must not be a complete nincompoop if the CEO of Sanctuary Records takes my phone calls, responds to my email, etc, though of course nobody knows my real name name, address, telephone number, occupation, etc.

The bottom line is that my ideas are good. And whenever I come up with another one to help secure that Moz's next album is a great success, I will post it here and email Merck directly. He told me it was ok to do so. You used to be the person I went to. You started it all, for you were my first Sanctuary contact, an email address I simply got from the internet. And look how far I've come in just a matter of weeks. Talking to producers at VH1, the Managing Editor at Rolling Stone takes my calls, etc., and I am ONLY a MERE fan.

You should come here, read this MESSAGE BOARD, read the HOMEPAGE of the site, take a look at the POLLS and the STORIES there, go to the CHAT, go to the ARCHIVES, and learn about us. Go anywhere but the GUESTBOOK, for that is a cesspool dominated by lunatics.

We are a cult Katy, we are a religion, we are a way of life. Welcome, to The Church of Moz. We are believers, we are devotees, we are obsessed, and we have found our SANCTUARY here. When your record label signed Steven Patrick Morrissey, you did not sign just any pop artist. You signed much more, more than I could begin to tell you, without writing a treatise.

So, I am glad to see you here finally. Remember, I offered to give you a weekly, monthly, short bullet point report on Moz, using this site as first port of call, but you didn't take me up on it. I offered that service to make your job and life easier, because I know as much about Moz as you do about Duran Duran. Oh yes, I've done my homework, your words to me. Remember you said, "you've done your homework to know about me and Duran Duran."

So, since you did not want my input, you can sort though all the rubbish, and pick the nuggets of gold out for yourself.

Welcome to SMITHDOM, long may it reign!!!

[whoever I feel like being at this very second in time]

I encourage you to post, but not under your real name!!

SUGGESTIONS:

Choose your own or select from the following:

Desert Shore
Great Horse
Woodpecker Rock
Latin Quarter
Strange Pills
Bogey-Man
Lion in Love
Herman Hermit
Disco Dancer
Meths on Breaths
Louder than Bombs
Strangeways
Karma Chameleon
Whirling Waltzer
Sycophantic Slag
Count Chocula
Tyrannosaurus Rex
The Great Pumpkin
The Stockholm Monsters

[Bobmozza]

I know I'm late but i'm so sorry.

Tanks!

> That was the funniest description of how this country was founded that
> I've ever read. You rock.

[Bobmozza]

If you think I'm going to bother to read all of this you're more stupid than most Americans, which is very stupid. I have skimmed through your bizarre rant though.

I am the first to admit you have produced some good things. Woody Allen, The Simpsons, Jazz music, hip hop up until 2001 and err various East and West cost 60s bands such as Love and The Velvet Underground to name but too. Oh yes and William Burroughs. Most of these are only good though because they're critical of your caveman-mentality country.

We all know some americans are intelligent but in the main you're a bunch of fast-food-eating, SUV-driving, illiterate, absurdly patriotic arseholes who value the dollar above everything else. Your country has no soul, is jealous of the rest of world and that's why it seeks to control the world through cultural imperialism: the result being a bland, environmentally destroyed world where everything is branded and if something can't make money it's cast asside like a half-eaten Big Mac.

English cuisine is a contradiction in terms as well, like american culture or german humour. Cliche, but true.

I was just striking back after it was proclaimed we were a bunch of rotten-toothed limeys, if you remember. I wouldn't normally launch an attack unless provoked, UNLIKE the USA- hahaha a bit of satire for you- another great English tradition.

> You Brits think it very clever to incessantly bash Americans via this
> website, a site run by an American, living in the same city as our
> favorite Mancunian.

> You think very poorly of us and of our nation. Could it be that you are
> simply jealous that the UK has been relegated to near 3rd world status,
> that you have almost no influence and no power? Could it be that you are
> jealous of our influence in technology, science, medicine, politics, world
> affairs, pop culture, etc.? Could it be that you have an inferiority
> complex that you mask in the form of all manner of put downs, low blows,
> and gross insults (i.e. acting superior), to simply mask the inferiority
> you feel inside?

> OK, the UK is not a 3rd world country, but your quality of life is lower
> than ours, your trains are shit, your flats and homes, smaller. In
> addition, while a dollar is worth nearly half of one Pound Sterling, I've
> always found that the cost of things in the UK is the same in Pounds as it
> is in the USA in dollars, so your buying power is much less. The man who
> earns 50,000 pounds a year has the same buying power in the UK as the man
> who earns 50,000 dollars a year in the USA. I find that disgusting and
> sad. You are getting ripped off every time you make a bloody purchase.
> And, it is criminal. As zealously capitalistic as you see us, at least
> there is a reward for working hard in America. There is not a proper
> reward system for working hard in England. Perhaps, this is why so many
> people in the UK are on the Dole, a notion, I took from you.

> While your latest rant has focused on many of the things you loathe about
> America, nothing new for you, why do you waste your time musing about a
> nation that you think is so terrible? The question is: Why are you
> obsessed with America? Why are the people of the U.K. obsessed with
> America? I am not obsessed with England, though I like the UK in general,
> very much. I have been to England several times, and once spent a month
> backpacking through the UK. By contrast, I am certain that despite all
> your lies that will come after this post, you have never set foot in
> America, or if you have, you were here once for a week. As a result, you
> have no idea what you are talking about and therefore you cannot speak
> intelligently about America, because you are only regurgitating that which
> you have read and been told by a particular segment of the English masses.

> Before I begin dissect your latest rant, and all the arguments that you
> will make after (since I've heard it all before), let me say this. I could
> also rant on incessantly about your colonial ways, particularly your
> nation's raping of the Indian Sub-Contintent. I too could talk of your
> nation, a nation without any cuisine to speak of, where the tourist finds
> himself/herself eating the most greasy fish and chips and surviving on
> dairy milk Cadbury chocolate, as all you have to offer is things made with
> kidneys, livers, and all other internal organs of animals, including the
> intestines of a sheep, though of course you blame that entirely on the
> Scots. My point is that there are plenty of bad things to say about the UK
> and the United States. However, there are more negative things to say
> about the cold and dreary island with God awful weather that you live on,
> simply because your history is longer, as you so rightly point out. From
> the tyranny of kings & queens long gone to present day, there is
> enough to bludgeon you with dear friend. Oh yes, there is plenty, for your
> history may be no more sordid than our history, but it is longer, hence I
> reiterate, there is more to find fault with.

> Anticpating your dial-a-cliche arguments then, let me say this:

> 1) Culture - we have one, but it is not as long as yours.

> 2) Grotesquely obese bodies - many Americans are fat it is true, and many
> more are not, but at least unlike your poverty stricken nation, we have
> enough to eat, while you are starving.

> 3) IQ's & Nobel Prizes - our IQ's are no less than yours and we have
> won many Nobel prizes. Take a look at this year's winners, for example.
> How many Americans do you see? How many Brits. do you see?

> 4) A mentally handicapped illiterate President - yes this is true.

> 5) All we have is lame Tony Blair.. the most defiant thing he did was
> merely go against the opinions of the British people.

> You are wrong about Mr. Blair. He is a warmonger.

> 6) Corporate capitalism - your nation is no less interested in making
> money than my nation. Moreover, being wealthy or striving for it, is no
> sin.

> 7) Racist, bigoted, and prejudiced political figures that tell asylum
> seekers to go fuck off - And yet the fact remains that it is harder to get
> British citizenship and be a subject of the Queen than it is to get
> American citizenship. Just ask Mr. Mohammed Al Fayed. We, in America, have
> our fair share of Pakistanis, Indians, Vietnamese, Korean, Japanese,
> Chinese, Mexican, South American, Central American, Thai, Philippino, such
> that unlike your racist arse, we don't lump & clump all
> "Asians" or all Latinos together. We are THE MOST diverse nation
> on Earth. Whites are no longer the majority in America. Statistics show
> that the USA is 51% people of color, 49% Caucasian.

> 8] No history to speak of - that's an outright lie. And yes, as you so
> rightly point out, we did kick your ass in the Revolutionary War, and
> saved you again in WWI, and again in WWII. Have you heard of the Marshall
> plan? As a result, you owe us a debt that can never be repaid, so when you
> tell us to think of your nation helping to create our nation, hence that
> we should be grateful, also think about how we helped you and reciprocate
> that gratitude.

> 9) Tax systems that fuck the poor and give to the rich - Right, and it is
> not so different in England. Moreover, having more than 1/2 your wages
> garnished by taxes is both criminal & egregious. As for your comments
> about discrimination, you live in the most discriminatory nation on the
> face of the earth. In the Oxford English Dictionary, alongside the
> definition for discrimination, there should be an imprint of the Union
> Jack.

> 10) Fascism going on rampantly - ditto for the UK. Just ask the Pakistanis
> in Salford.

> 11) While many Americans, do not think for themselves, I do, to the extent
> that I can. Nobody fully thinks for himself when bombarded by media,
> magazines, newspapers, office chatter, the internet, family, friends,
> every single day. Other people help to shape our views, and we to shape
> their views. I do not simply regurgitate what this corporate media and
> fuckwit president want me to believe. I don't believe so much as a word he
> says.

> 12) Amazing that you are our biggest ally. I would think it was Israel.
> Nation full of ungrateful limey wankers that you are who do nothing but
> belittle us.

> 13) You are vegetarian or vegan, hence you don't support the meat
> industry, correct? Good. If everyone lived as I do, nobody in America
> would purchase albums by Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera, 50 Cent or
> Eminmem, or anything on the Top 40 charts. They would never watch
> television at all, because I don't own one. I read, I go on the internet,
> or take a walk. If I feel the need to see something on a screen, I go to
> the movies. They would never buy 99.9% of the American newspapers &
> magazines out there, for I don't. They would never watch American
> football, American baseball, or drink American beer, for I do none of
> these things. They would never watch the Superbowl, because I don't. I'd
> rather watch an Arsenal match on Sky Sports, if I had a TV, and a satelite
> dish. The point is not to each his own, but rather that you do what you
> can do in the way that you live. And in living with some integrity, you go
> to bed, or wake up, knowing that you don't support XYZ things, and that
> your life reflects that. And that's the best you can do. Knowing what is
> going on is all well and good, changing it is futile, mate. The
> corporations who run our governments and our news media have nearly all
> the power. Check back in with me when you are older, wiser, and more
> jaded.

> 14) But the difference between America and the UK, you see, is that most
> of us did not BELIEVE these lies, whereas the American people willingly
> believed it, assuming wrongly that anyone in power would be telling the
> truth. The Americans need to learn to question their government, as does
> their media, which is what WE do and what our MEDIA does.

> More lies. Nearly 50% of Americans were against the war before it started.
> Get off your high horse and your superiority complex. Your people and
> media are no more informed than ours. In fact, you are worse, as the BBC
> is government run and government owned, and our television stations and
> newspapers are not. American approval for the war only went up when it
> looked like we were winning, after the air strike campaign began. Now,
> that Americans are dying every day, Bush's approval ratings have never
> been lower.

> 15) There is NO COUNTRY in this world more interested in making money,
> ripping people off, capitalising globally, forcing people in undeveloped
> countries to work slave labour for virtually nothing (in their effort to
> save money), than America. The American source of joy and pride is
> wealth.. whereas other countries pride themselves more on other things..
> intelligence, for example.

> More lies & rhetoric. No nation on this Earth prides themselves on
> intelligence. As if the UK, does not force people in 3rd world nations
> into slave labor. Give me a break, you mastered it and taught us by your
> colonial, imperial, ways. This is the epitome of the Pot calling the
> kettle Black.

> 16) Our comedians are much more funny than yours, for our comedians humor
> is universal, whereas your comedians are only understood by people on your
> island, which is why your situation comedies are not translated into 157
> different languages, and wanted in 157 nations. When you produce a show
> like Seinfeld, give me a ring, ok. By contrast, Monty Python and Fawlty
> towers were crap.

> 17) The average English family is nor more or less enlightened that the
> average American one, which is to say almost completely unenlightened.

> In conclusion, it is too bad that you are incapable of going so much as
> day, let alone a fortnight without demeaning us, because then you would
> have nothing to talk about other than how the British Secret Services
> & The Royal Family actually conspired to, and then eventually
> murdered, Princess Diana.

[Chill]

Actually, Bob, while I don't disagree with much of what you've said, I take issue with your gross over-generalizations. Most Americans, I think you would find, are some of those things, but not all of them. What's more, most Americans are genuinely decent people just trying to get by. There are good and bad people everywhere. Fat people, greedy people and people with bad teeth too. Let's not forget that.

[CrushingBore]

To do otherwise is to be guilty of the self-centred bigotry and us v them mentality Americans are so often accused of adopting.

But please get your moron President out of my country as soon as feasible. Some poeple here are actually starting to believe him....

[Katy]

> Katy, I am sorry for being so hard on you, when you have been, always
> civil, businesslike, and professional towards me, even if I do think that
> the CEO of Sanctuary, Merck Mercuriadis, is a bit more accesible. But then
> he can be, he runs the company!

I‘m a little confused. I don’t think I’ve had professional, or other, dealings with someone known as “The World Won’t Listen” but thanks for the compliment anyway, the attributes you describe are amongst those I aim for in doing my job.

> How you could have misread my post, in the manner in which you did, is
> unfamthomable to me. It was clearly a post against the war in Iraq,
> against the American & British lead campaign, and for the Iraqi
> people. But no matter, to err is human. I do it all the time!

Again, I don’t think I’ve read any of your posts, so I’m not sure how you know what I think of them.

> I am quite certain that you are basically told to not pay too much
> attention to fans of any artist on your label. The only difference between
> these fans & I, is that....either I'm a marketing genius when it comes
> to Moz, or more likely, I am willing to find out who the various people in
> power are, suggest ideas to them directly, and put things in play.
> Morrissey signings, VH-1, Rolling Stone, and more, they were all MY IDEAS,
> Katy. I must not be a complete nincompoop if the CEO of Sanctuary Records
> takes my phone calls, responds to my email, etc, though of course nobody
> knows my real name name, address, telephone number, occupation, etc.

It is not correct to talk about a record label as if it belongs to me. I am glad that you are coming up with good ideas relating to marketing of Morrissey; In terms of the UK, have you thought of contacting the makers of “The South Bank Show” to see whether they would consider doing a show on Morrissey as a belated follow up to the 1987 programme? Many Artists have appeared twice. I would certainly not describe you as a complete nincompoop.

> The bottom line is that my ideas are good. And whenever I come up with
> another one to help secure that Moz's next album is a great success, I
> will post it here and email Merck directly. He told me it was ok to do so.
> You used to be the person I went to. You started it all, for you were my
> first Sanctuary contact, an email address I simply got from the internet.
> And look how far I've come in just a matter of weeks. Talking to producers
> at VH1, the Managing Editor at Rolling Stone takes my calls, etc., and I
> am ONLY a MERE fan.

If people have told you that they are happy to be e-mailed directly then presumably they are happy to be directly e-mailed – I would never describe anyone as ONLY a MERE fan (strangely enough I have responded to a post from “your worst nightmare” above regarding these two words).

> You should come here, read this MESSAGE BOARD, read the HOMEPAGE of the
> site, take a look at the POLLS and the STORIES there, go to the CHAT, go
> to the ARCHIVES, and learn about us. Go anywhere but the GUESTBOOK, for
> that is a cesspool dominated by lunatics.

I am familiar with all the parts of the site besides CHAT, which I’m not interested in. The guestbook doesn’t really seem to do what the name suggests, but I like this board and the main pages.

> We are a cult Katy, we are a religion, we are a way of life. Welcome, to
> The Church of Moz. We are believers, we are devotees, we are obsessed, and
> we have found our SANCTUARY here. When your record label signed Steven
> Patrick Morrissey, you did not sign just any pop artist. You signed much
> more, more than I could begin to tell you, without writing a treatise.

I consider myself a big fan of Morrissey, though obviously not as devoted as some; again I would stress that it is incorrect to describe a record label as “mine”.

> So, I am glad to see you here finally. Remember, I offered to give you a
> weekly, monthly, short bullet point report on Moz, using this site as
> first port of call, but you didn't take me up on it. I offered that
> service to make your job and life easier, because I know as much about Moz
> as you do about Duran Duran. Oh yes, I've done my homework, your words to
> me. Remember you said, "you've done your homework to know about me
> and Duran Duran."

Sorry I cannot recall any such offer, but see my comments above regarding identity confusion. I see Duran Duran have reformed and I wish them well, though I am much more interested in the new Morrissey record.

> So, since you did not want my input, you can sort though all the rubbish,
> and pick the nuggets of gold out for yourself.

> Welcome to SMITHDOM, long may it reign!!!

Thank you, I have no doubt that Morrissey is one of the most important pop singers ever.

[Katy]

> Katy, while I will stop short of calling you an idiot, I think your anger
> is severely misplaced. "Mere," when used in this context was
> used to reinforce the idea that the Iraqis who were killed were not all
> soldiers. That is, it was used as a sort of condemnation of both
> governments for having engaged in a war that led to the slaughter of
> innocent civilians. The word was not used in a denigrating fashion at all.

> -An English Major (not a major in the military -- the mere civilian kind)

Thank you for not calling me an idiot and for your alternative suggestion as to the meaning of the wording of "Who else but me"s original post.

I'm glad you are studying the English language. I've completed my studies in this area and am not convinced as to your interpretation.

I like to think that my formal education has helped me to appreciate the intrinsic worth of all human beings - which is not dependent upon their economic or military value.

[Katy]

> I encourage you to post, but not under your real name!!

> SUGGESTIONS:

> Choose your own or select from the following:

> Desert Shore
> Great Horse
> Woodpecker Rock
> Latin Quarter
> Strange Pills
> Bogey-Man
> Lion in Love
> Herman Hermit
> Disco Dancer
> Meths on Breaths
> Louder than Bombs
> Strangeways
> Karma Chameleon
> Whirling Waltzer
> Sycophantic Slag
> Count Chocula
> Tyrannosaurus Rex
> The Great Pumpkin
> The Stockholm Monsters

Thank you for the suggestion. Posting under different names can lead to confusion, so I'll probably just stick to the one.

[Chill]

Okay, now I may have to reconsider my former decision not to call you an idiot. I mean, I'm really sorry, but you are missing the point completely and you need to be knocked off your ridiculously high horse. He was not denigrating them for being civilians. He was saying that they were not the typical and expected casualties of war. That is, they were not soldiers. They were not people who were members of a military force whose job it is to fight (and possibly die) for their country. Think about it. What the hell is your point exactly? He condemned the killing of innocent civilians? It's a soldier's job to fight and die. Yeah, their lives aren't worth any less, but it's THEIR JOB. For the most part, in both the Baathist party and in our own military, these are people who signed up voluntarily for the job. It doesn't mean they deserve to die and it doesn't discount the fact that they may have felt compelled to join the army for various reasons (monetary, for example), but like I said, it's their job. If you're a soldier, you go into it knowing you may die. Civilians, on the other hand, have no military affiliation. They are not supposed to be killed in war, although sometimes they are. Nevertheless, most RATIONAL people agree that the killing of a civilian in war is more heinous than the killing of a solider, if only because a soldier goes into war with the reasonable expectation that he (or she) could die.

In short, I think you are making much too big a deal over the use of one small word. You're completely missing the point. What's more, you think you're somehow more enlightened than the rest of us, when, for all intents and purposes, we're saying the exact same thing you are. It's a damn shame and a travesty that so many civilian lives were lost in fighting this illegal war. To assume that we do not value human life because we express more concern over the loss of innocent lives is a bit foolish of you. I'm sure I speak for virtually everyone when I express regret over the loss of the lives of our servicemen as well as Iraqi soldiers, but, I must reiterate, when you sign up to be in the military, you know you could get killed. It doesn't make it right, but that's what soldiers do!

[Chill]

> To do otherwise is to be guilty of the self-centred bigotry and us v them
> mentality Americans are so often accused of adopting.

> But please get your moron President out of my country as soon as feasible.
> Some poeple here are actually starting to believe him....

If only assassination wasn't so illegal...

[CrushingBore]

> If only assassination wasn't so illegal...

Or impractical given that no sentient civilian other than a couple of Greens party senators were able to come within exocet missile range of ol' Dubya the entire time he was here. I mean he comes all this way, and we spend millions on security for him to deliver one little speech, attend a cocktail party and fuck off again. It's pathetic.

[Little Miss Curious]

> I like to think that my formal education has helped me to appreciate the
> intrinsic worth of all human beings - which is not dependent upon their
> economic or military value.

Shame your formal education also makes you sound like you have a ten foot pole rammed up your arse. This is a messageboard, girl - put away your thesaurus!

LMC x

[Chill]

> Or impractical given that no sentient civilian other than a couple of
> Greens party senators were able to come within exocet missile range of ol'
> Dubya the entire time he was here. I mean he comes all this way, and we
> spend millions on security for him to deliver one little speech, attend a
> cocktail party and fuck off again. It's pathetic.

This is precisely why I need to make like Brando and get my own goddamned little island and take myself away from all this insanity and glory in my own.

[D Attenborough]

http://www.morrissey-solo.com/discuss/images/pic129736.jpg

[Katy]

Chill,

Seeing that I thanked you for not agreeing with “your worst nightmare’s” initial description of me as “an idiot”, I’m a little disappointed that you’ve abandoned civility for this second post and write that you are "reconsidering your former decision”. I have to say that, whilst not exactly calling me an idiot, this phrase does suggest that you are prepared to abandon reasoned argument for childish abuse, which I find a little disappointing.

Your interpretation of “who else but me’s” original post is different from mine. Neither of us is in a position to say for sure exactly what he or she had in his/her heart when that post was written, but I have seen language like that used by evil people to justify terrible crimes. Human beings are described as “only” this or “merely” that, living breathing people are called cowlike morons.

You say that “for all intents and purposes we’re saying the exact same thing that we are” . I’m not sure who you mean by “we”? Are you aligning yourself with “who else but me” – if so I urge you to reconsider. Words may not appear to be that important to you at this stage of your emotional development, but how ideas are presented in written form is crucial to how society develops – all societies not just the comfortable western one we live in. As Morrissey sang (on “You Handsome Devil” from “Hatful of Hollow”)

“There’s more to life than books you know, but not much more”

Some of us are prepared to challenge this filth when it appears in a public forum and I will continue to do so. All that is needed for evil to triumph is for good men/women to do nothing.

I certainly do not consider myself more “enlightened than the rest of us” – I consider my self more enlightened than “who else but me” and I would guess I have seen more of the world than you and appreciate the importance of not only showing respect to others of all backgrounds but also of clearly showing others of all backgrounds that you are prepared to show them respect. This inevitably involves careful use of language – there is nothing “politically correct” in that, in fact it’s simply about old fashioned respect for your fellow human beings.

I was initially confused about your claim that I was “making much too big a deal over the use of one small word”. You are clearly not an unintelligent person, and it’s difficult to believe that you really think that my argument can be reduced down to such a statement.

At first I presumed that you had possibly misread my posts but, upon consideration, I’ve thought of a more likely explanation. I know for a fact that there is at least one contributor to this board that likes to intentionally “misunderstand” the serious points made by other posters in order to see if they can provoke an outraged reaction, which presumably causes amusement in the “misunderstanding” poster. A childish and rather pitiable recreation I’d have thought, but relatively harmless.

I’m sure you don’t do this regularly but I don’t think I’d be far wrong if I thought that you had decided to play this little game with me on this occasion?

Don’t worry, I consider that there is no place for pomposity on a message board. I’m more than capable of laughing at myself , and don’t bear grudges. I have to say though, that I am a rather busy, in demand person, both socially and workwise, and won’t be able to find the time to join in the fun. For this reason, I think, having had my say, I’ll make this my last post in this sequence.

One last, I think decisive, thought; If “who else but me” had really had the innocuous intentions that you claim, does it not strike you as a little strange that he/she has not returned to the fray to argue the case, rather than let you and “your worst nightmare” do so on his/her behalf? I realise that not everyone accesses the board that frequently, but I hardly think that someone propounding such quasi-fascistic, military–worshipping views, would not visit again to see whether it had just been ignored or whether decent people had reacted like decent people should.

I for one am proud to make such a stand, and of the apparent result my comment has had – the apparent (voluntary) banishment from the board of an amoral contributor. The next time such a person decides to soil this board with such views, I’d like to think you’d be standing with me rather than excusing such behaviour.

[Chill]

I am not even going to read your little term paper. All I have to say is that if you still believe the person was using the word "mere" to justify the murdering of civilians (or the killing of military personnel in a war which he even called ILLEGAL, which kind of suggests he doesn't agree with it), you have got a screw loose. I don't think it takes some great leap of logic to figure out from the original post that he was CONDEMNING the war on EVERY level. The person even came back on another ID and clarified his position for the benefit of the mentally challenged among us. For you to focus on one little word to the point of writing a goddamned essay about it is to show that you -- and not I -- are the unreasonable one here.

Again, stop with the self-righteous bullshit. You're posting on a fucking message board for god's sake. You aren't changing the world by focusing on that guy's diction. In fact, I think you're perhaps distracting yourself from real issues. Why don't you go put your philanthropic thrust to good use and work at a soup kitchen? At least then you won't be annoying me with your pitiful lack of critical reading skills.

[Worm]

"Mr. Blair & Mr. Bush, should both be tried for war crimes, and publicly hung for the mass murder of thousands of Iraqis, many of whom were mere civilians."

This sentence is an unequivocal expression of moral disgust over the invasion and occupation of Iraq by the United States and the United Kingdom. The final clause, which for some reason has confused you, Katy, is an amplification of the writer's point, not a deflationary qualification. To justify your outrage it would have to read something like "(even though many of them were merely civilians)".

Furthermore, in advocating a war crimes trial, and by distinguishing soldiers from "mere" civilians, the writer also implies a knowledge of and respect for international law, namely the Geneva Convention, which does stipulate a hierarchy of acceptable human losses in war time. This hierarchy therefore allows for the use of "mere" as a modifier indicating degree of validity as a military target (in this case, "little" or "no" validity). Naturally we all quail at the thought of assigning value to human beings as if they were chess pieces, Katy, but, on the other hand, these laws are intended to carry the standard of compassion which you have so enthusiastically taken up on your own.

In short, as Chill rightly said, you're all saying the same thing.

Surely there are few in the world who would deny the justness of your defense of morality, although if they are out there they're probably frequent contributors to this message board.

(Oh, extra credit for the almost verbatim parroting of Edmund Burke.)

Sorry to have to pile on, but your antagonists are correct. I'm an ex-English major too, and you know we're sticklers. Pests, actually, but as you know language is so important.

[KATY IS A CUNT, KATY IS A CUNT, KATY IS A CUNT, KATY IS A CUNT, KATY IS A CUNT, KATY IS A CUNT]

MY ORIGINAL POST:

Your nation invaded Iraq too you daft wanker. Your notions regarding the war are incomplete. You are wrong about your nation's role in this conflict. Mr. Blair is a warmonger. He came to the United States repeatedly, met with President Bush repeatedly, and spoke before the U.S. Congress repeatedly, urging us to invade Iraq. Tony Blair, along with lies from British intelligence (an oxymoron) stated that Iraq was attempting to obtain, or rather had obtained, nuclear materials, in preparation to make a nuclear bomb. This was one of the main reasons the U.S. decided (along with Britain) to invade Iraq. Tony Blair is the biggest sellout of all time. To stand with President Clinton and champion the causes of the disenfranchised on one hand, and then to stand beside that Texan fool on the other, and send those same poor off to war, is the very epitome of hypocrisy. Mr. Blair & Mr. Bush, should both be tried for war crimes, and publicly hung for the mass murder of thousands of Iraqis, many of whom were mere civilians. The U.N. weapons inspectors recently reentered Iraq and found no weapons of mass destruction. Accordingly, both the British public and the American people were lied to, and the reasons given for attacking Iraq were fabricated. As a consequence, Mr. Blair & Mr. Bush should now be held accountable for their crimes.

__________________________________________________ _________________

Look you fucking bitch, I'm going to sit here and write a long arsed treatise on my statement, which I full stand by. I don't appreciate you calling me a slew of words, based on a mere misinterpretation of one of my posts. From that misinterpretation, you think that you can judge me, know my person, and draw conclusions about my beliefs. Look you fucking twat, I explained to you over and over and over again what I meant. I posted as "who else but me" & "your worst nightmare" & "the world won't listen," and "whoever I feel like being at this point in time" because I fucking felt like it.

Dissecting you shitty, long-winded, self-righteous, overly moral, argument piece by God damn fucking piece let me say this.

__________________________________________________ ____________________

"Chill,

Seeing that I thanked you for not agreeing with “your worst nightmare’s” initial description of me as “an idiot”, I’m a little disappointed that you’ve abandoned civility for this second post and write that you are "reconsidering your former decision."

I'M FAIRLY SURE THAT CHILL DID THIS BECAUSE YOU WERE BEING OBTUSE IN REFUSING TO SEE THAT SEVERAL PERSONS, INCLUDING MYSELF ON MULTIPLE OCCASIONS, CHILL IN MULTIPLE EFFORTS, AND ONE OTHER PERSON WHO SAID WORDS TO THE AFFECT OF YOU ACTING LIKE YOU HAVE A "10 FOOT POLL STUCK UP YOUR ARSE," TRIED TO REASON WITH YOU AND SHOW YOU WHAT THE INTENTIONS BEHIND THAT POST WERE, BUT YOU REFUSED TO SEE THEM. THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN YOU KATY, MYSELF, CHILL, AND THAT OTHER USER, IS THAT WE ARE REASONABLE IN OUR INTERPRETATION OF THE MEANING OF WORDS, MEANING WHICH IS DERIVED FROM CONTEXT. BY CONTRAST, YOU HAVE TAKEN A WORD, "MERE," AND DRIVEN OVER A CLIFF, FAR OUT OF ITS CONTEXT AND TWISTED THE ENTIRE MEANING OF MY POST. ALL REASONABLE PEOPLE AGREE THAT IT WAS A POST AGAINST WAR IN IRAQ, AGAINST THE U.S. & U.K. LED CAMPAIGN, AND FOR THE IRAQI PEOPLE.

"I have to say that, whilst not exactly calling me an idiot, this phrase does suggest that you are prepared to abandon reasoned argument for childish abuse, which I find a little disappointing."

CHILL DID NOT ABUSE YOU IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM. I DID YOU FUCKING CUNT, AND I WILL CONTINUE TO ABUSE YOU, IF YOU CONTINUE TO JUDGE ME. GET OFF MY BACK.

"Your interpretation of “who else but me’s” original post is different from mine. Neither of us is in a position to say for sure exactly what he or she had in his/her heart when that post was written, but I have seen language like that used by evil people to justify terrible crimes. Human beings are described as “only” this or “merely” that, living breathing people are called cowlike morons."

YOU ARE NOT IN A POSITION TO SAY FOR SURE WHAT I MEANT, KATY, BUT I AM. I AM. I AM. I AM. I AM. I AM. I AM. HAVE I MADE MYSELF CLEAR? I AM. I MEANT THAT MANY OF THE PEOPLE KILLED IN IRAQ WERE CIVILIANS, INNOCENT CIVILIANS, THAT WERE NOT ENGAGING IN ANY KIND OF COMBAT OR TERRORISM. WHILE YOU SAY ON ONE HAND YOU ARE IN NO POSITION TO JUDGE ME, YOU TURN AROUND AND CALL ME A "COWLIKE MORON." I TAKE UMBRAGE AT THESE COMMENTS AND FIND YOUR ENTIRE STATEMENT CONTRADICTORY, AND THEREFORE LACKING IN MERIT, AS IT IS INCONSISTENT, HYPOCRITICAL, AND WAS EITHER WRITTEN IN BAD FAITH, OR BY AN IDIOT WHICH YOU HAVE PROVED TO BE TIME AND TIME AGAIN.

"You say that “for all intents and purposes we’re saying the exact same thing that we are” . I’m not sure who you mean by “we”? Are you aligning yourself with “who else but me” – if so I urge you to reconsider. Words may not appear to be that important to you at this stage of your emotional development, but how ideas are presented in written form is crucial to how society develops – all societies not just the comfortable western one we live in. As Morrissey sang (on “You Handsome Devil” from “Hatful of Hollow”) There’s more to life than books you know, but not much more."

PLEASE DON'T QUESTION ANYONE'S EMOTIONAL DEVELOPMENT IF YOU ARE NOT VERY ACQUAINTED WITH THEM. YOU DON'T KNOW CHILL AND YOU DO NOT KNOW ME. WE BOTH MAJORED IN ENGLISH. CHILL HAS SOME STUDYING COUREWORK LEFT, BUT NOT MUCH. WE BOTH, CHILL AND I, UNDERSTAND THAT LANGUAGE IS A DYNAMIC THING, ALWAYS CHANGING, AND IN A STATE OF FLUX. I HAVE STUDIED CRITICAL THEORY FROM PLATO THROUGH TO DERRIDA. I WAS TAUGHT BY THE MOST IMPORTANT LINGUIST LIVING, AS PROFESSOR DERRIDA IS A TENURED FACULTY MEMBER AT MY ALMA MATTER, ONE OF THE UNIVERSITIES IN THE UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA SYSTEM. I'M SURE CHILL HAS STUDIED THEM, OR IS FAMILAR WITH THEM. WORDS ARE VERY IMPORTANT TO ME. MY LIFE REVOLVES AROUND THE STUDY OF WORDS, SPECIFCALLY LEXICOGRAPHY & ETYMOLOGY. IF YOU COULD BE ARSED INTO READING "CAUGHT IN THE WEB OF WORDS, JAMES MURRAY AND THE CREATION OF THE OXFORD ENGLISH DICTIONARY" BY K.M ELISABETH MURRAY, I THINK IT WOULD BE WORTH YOUR TIME, WITH THE CAVEAT BEING THAT IF YOU ARE TOO STUPID TO UNDERSTAND THE TEXT, WHICH YOU HAVE DEMONSTRATED THAT YOU ARE, THAN DON'T BOTHER TRYING. THE REST OF YOUR WORDS IN QUOTES OTHER CULTURES BEING DIFFERENT FROM OURS, WOULD BE KNOWN TO ALL PERSONS WHO POSSESS SOME COMMON SENSE, READ, HAVE BEEN EDUCATED, AND/OR HAVE TRAVELED. YOU ARE NOT TELLING US ANYTHING WE DO NOT KNOW.

"Some of us are prepared to challenge this filth when it appears in a public forum and I will continue to do so. All that is needed for evil to triumph is for good men/women to do nothing."

AGAIN YOU HAVE SAID THAT YOU ARE NOT IN A POSITION TO SAY WHAT I HAD IN MY MIND OR HEART, AND YET YOU CALL MY WORDS "FILTH." I FIND THIS TO OFFENSIVE. MY WORDS WERE NOT FILTH, FOR THE REASONS I HAVE STATED.

"I certainly do not consider myself more “enlightened than the rest of us” – I consider my self more enlightened than “who else but me” and I would guess I have seen more of the world than you and appreciate the importance of not only showing respect to others of all backgrounds but also of clearly showing others of all backgrounds that you are prepared to show them respect. This inevitably involves careful use of language – there is nothing “politically correct” in that, in fact it’s simply about old fashioned respect for your fellow human beings."

I HAVE BEEN TO EVERY COUNTRY IN EUROPE, ALL OVER ASIA, THE MIDDLE EAST, THE INDIAN SUB-CONTINTENT, AFRICA, MEXICO. I HAVE SEEN MUCH OF THIS WORLD KATY. UNLIKE YOU, I WAS BORN IN A NATION FAR FAR AWAY FROM THE UNITED STATES. I HAVE MY ROOTS IN AT LEAST 5 DIFFERENT CULTURES. I SPEAK 5 DISTINCT LANGUAGES. I DON'T CONSIDER YOU MORE ENLIGHTENED THAT ME, AND I SERIOUS DOUBT THAT YOU POSSESS A DOCTORATE. I DO. YOU SAY THAT YOU DON'T CONSIDER YOURSELF MORE ENLIGHTENED THAN THE REST OF US, YET AGAIN YOU ARE JUDGING ME. I AM OFFENDED BY THESE REMARKS.

"I was initially confused about your claim that I was “making much too big a deal over the use of one small word”. You are clearly not an unintelligent person, and it’s difficult to believe that you really think that my argument can be reduced down to such a statement."

I THINK CHILL'S INTERPRETATION WAS ON POINT, AND CORRECT, AS YOU MADE SOMETHING OUT OF NOTHING, BY CHAMPIONING YOUR MEANING, AND NOT THE DICTIONARY'S DEFINITION. YOU DISMISSED THE WELL SETTLED CONNOTATION AND UNDERSTANDING OF REASONABLE PEOPLE. YOUR ARGUMENT CAN BE REDUCED TO THE FOLLOWING: YOU ARE AN IDIOT, AND I REMAIN DEFIANT. FUCK YOU.

"At first I presumed that you had possibly misread my posts but, upon consideration, I’ve thought of a more likely explanation. I know for a fact that there is at least one contributor to this board that likes to intentionally “misunderstand” the serious points made by other posters in order to see if they can provoke an outraged reaction, which presumably causes amusement in the “misunderstanding” poster. A childish and rather pitiable recreation I’d have thought, but relatively harmless."

THERE ARE MANY THAT DO THIS KATY, MANY. MR. IMPROPER AND LIL ROB, COME TO MIND, THOUGH SOME PEOPLE LIKE THEM VERY MUCH AND FIND THEM FUNNY. EACH PERSON RESERVES THE RIGHT TO JUDGE FOR HIMSELF OR HERSELF, WHAT THEY FIND ENTERTAINING AND WORTHY AND WHAT THEY DO NOT.

WHAT THEY DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO, IS TO TAKE SOMEONE'S WORDS, AND MANGLE THEM AS YOU HAVE, REVERSING THE GOOD INTENTIONS BEHIND THOSE WORDS, AND USING THEM IN AN OFFENSIVE WAY AGAINST MY PERSON. I DO AS I PLEASE, KATY. IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, DON'T COME HERE.

"I’m sure you don’t do this regularly but I don’t think I’d be far wrong if I thought that you had decided to play this little game with me on this occasion?"

I CAN TELL YOU THAT CHILL IS NOT PLAYING ANY GAMES. UNDER MY REGULAR NAME KATY, WHICH YOU WILL NEVER BE PRIVY TO, I KNOW CHILL QUITE WELL AS I HAVE BEEN COMING HERE FOR A VERY LONG TIME. CHILL DOES NOT PLAY THESE KINDS OF GAMES. CHILL IS SMART, AND WISE BEYOND HER YEARS. I CARE FOR CHILL VERY MUCH AS FRIEND ON THIS MESSAGE BOARD. AND, I HOPE ONE DAY CHILL AND I COULD SIT DOWN FOR A COFFEE AS WE GET ALONG WELL IN THIS FORUM, AND HAVE MUCH IN COMMON.

"Don’t worry, I consider that there is no place for pomposity on a message board. I’m more than capable of laughing at myself , and don’t bear grudges. I have to say though, that I am a rather busy, in demand person, both socially and workwise, and won’t be able to find the time to join in the fun. For this reason, I think, having had my say, I’ll make this my last post in this sequence."

I AM HAPPY THAT YOU ARE AN IN DEMAND PERSON. I'M GLAD TO SEE THAT THE OLDEST TRADE IN THE BOOK, PROSTITUION IS ALIVE AND WELL. I THINK YOU SHOULD MAKE THIS YOUR LAST POST PERIOD, KATY. YOU ARE NOT WELCOME HERE.

"One last, I think decisive, thought; If “who else but me” had really had the innocuous intentions that you claim, does it not strike you as a little strange that he/she has not returned to the fray to argue the case, rather than let you and “your worst nightmare” do so on his/her behalf? I realise that not everyone accesses the board that frequently, but I hardly think that someone propounding such quasi-fascistic, military–worshipping views, would not visit again to see whether it had just been ignored or whether decent people had reacted like decent people should."

I DID RETURN TO THE FRAY AS "YOUR WORST NIGHTMARE," "THE WORLD WON'T LISTEN" & "WHOEVER I FEEL LIKE BEING AT THIS POINT IN TIME." IN ADDITION, I AM NOT A "QUASI-FASCISTIC, MILITARY WORSHIPPER." I AM AGAINST THIS WAR ON IRAQ AND I MADE THAT CLEAR. I AM OFFENDED AT YOUR COMMENTS.

"I for one am proud to make such a stand, and of the apparent result my comment has had – the apparent (voluntary) banishment from the board of an amoral contributor. The next time such a person decides to soil this board with such views, I’d like to think you’d be standing with me rather than excusing such behaviour."

I AM NOT AN AMORAL CONTRIBUTOR, YOU JUDGEMENTAL FUCKKING PIG. YOU BANISED NOBODY. I HAVE MANY FRIENDS HERE KATY, SOME EVEN CALL ME A "LEGEND." YOU WILL NEVER GET RID OF ME KATY. I'VE BEEN HERE FOR YEARS, CUNT. BY CONTRAST, I WILL NEVER ALLOW YOU TO POST AGAIN IN PEACE UNTIL YOU APOLOGIZE. YOU CAN BE EXPECTED TO BE CALLED EVERY NAME UNDER THE SUN FROM THIS DAY FORWARD, IN YOUR EVERY POST. I SUGGEST YOU TONE DOWN YOUR RHETORIC, AND GET A NICKNAME. YOU MIGHT SLEEP, BUT YOU WILL NEVER DREAM. AGAIN, FUCK YOU, YOU FUCKING SELF-RIGHTEOUS, OVERLY MORAL, HOLIER THAN THOUGH, STUPID, PREACHING, IDIOT, MISINTERPRETER OF THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE, CUNT.

YOU OWE ME AN APOLOGY, BIG TIME, FOR JUDGING ME TO BE SOMEONE THAT IS ENTIRELY UNLIKE THE PERSON THAT I AM. YOU ATTACKED ME. WHEN WE TRIED TO ENLIGHTEN YOU, YOU ATTACKED ME AGAIN.

YOU CAN EITHER APOLOGIZE OR FACE MY WRATH. YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT I AM CAPABLE OF DOING. TAKE YOUR PICK. I SUGGEST YOU APOLOGIZE.

[Sebastian]

I'd love to kill you myself, but it is illegal.

[Katy]

I'm sorry. You're obviously quite upset, something I certainly didn't intend, and my post was clearly misjudged.

I don't for a second think that you hold quasi-fascistic, military–worshipping views nor do I consider you a "cowlike moron" (not that I called you this in my post)

If you really think I might be Katy Krassner, please be assured I am not.

[Belligerent Ghoul]

I have just finished a 10 minute AOL Instant Messaging session with Mr. Merck Mercuriadis, the CEO of Sanctuary Records. He was aware of this situation, regarding someone who was posting as "Katy" as Katy Krassner was made aware of these posts by someone here. Merck asked me to tell the entire community that Katy Krassner, of Sanctuary Records, would never send anything to Morrissey-Solo that was not an official communique from Sanctuary authorized by him. I am writing this at Merck's request, as he and I are in email, and instant message contact, from time to time. He is a good, kind, open, and accessible, man. I respect him immensely.

[Chill]

[Papa Jack]

don't underestimate us....

[Belligerent Ghoul]

I never claimed anything other than an acquaintance with Mr. Merck Mercuriadis the CEO of Sanctuary Records. This extends to the occasional email and brief Instant Message sessions.

I also know someone who worked with The Smiths & Morrissey through to Southpaw Grammar. This person has asked me not to divulge his/her name. This person no longer has any contact with Moz. The last contact this person had with Morrissey was that he/she got a paycheck, and a huge box full of 12 inch Vinyl Promotional Southpaw Grammar in the mail which is gathering dust in his/her garage.

That's all.

[Katy]

May I take issue with you on this one, Chill? With respect to both you and the poster, this is not the “best post ever”, by any reasonable criteria. Granted, the main point made in the post, that I misinterpreted the poster’s use of the word “mere” in a previous post and consequently made unfounded presumptions regarding his/her morality was proven to be correct, and I apologized for this shortly after the post. Having issued that apology with good grace, and made my peace with the poster, I think it possible to comment on the post from a neutral viewpoint.

The post in question is generally well written and some solid points are powerfully made (particularly regarding the poster’s intellectual achievements, and his/her “legendary” status on the board) though I have to say the rather calmer, more measured response by Worm was much more influential in leading me to conclude that my assumptions regarding the initial post were erroneous.

So a fairly strong, if perhaps not “great” post in terms of delivering a heart felt argument. Where it both falls down and slips up, I think, is that the level of abuse contained in the posts does tend to detract significantly from the arguments made. Strangely, you seem to see this as a positive point but I wonder whether the “righteous rage” that you say you love may be considered by others as something entirely healthy for the future of the board. For example the final passage strikes me as being particularly unfriendly. I have used the following code for profanities.

Clot = Crude Term for female genitalia
Flip = Crude Term for the sexual act

"I AM NOT AN AMORAL CONTRIBUTOR, YOU JUDGEMENTAL FLIPPING PIG. YOU BANISED NOBODY. I HAVE MANY FRIENDS HERE KATY, SOME EVEN CALL ME A "LEGEND." YOU WILL NEVER GET RID OF ME KATY. I'VE BEEN HERE FOR YEARS, CLOT. BY CONTRAST, I WILL NEVER ALLOW YOU TO POST AGAIN IN PEACE UNTIL YOU APOLOGIZE. YOU CAN BE EXPECTED TO BE CALLED EVERY NAME UNDER THE SUN FROM THIS DAY FORWARD, IN YOUR EVERY POST. I SUGGEST YOU TONE DOWN YOUR RHETORIC, AND GET A NICKNAME. YOU MIGHT SLEEP, BUT YOU WILL NEVER DREAM. AGAIN, FLIP YOU, YOU FLIPPING SELF-RIGHTEOUS, OVERLY MORAL, HOLIER THAN THOUGH, STUPID, PREACHING, IDIOT, MISINTERPRETER OF THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE, CLOT.
YOU OWE ME AN APOLOGY, BIG TIME, FOR JUDGING ME TO BE SOMEONE THAT IS ENTIRELY UNLIKE THE PERSON THAT I AM. YOU ATTACKED ME. WHEN WE TRIED TO ENLIGHTEN YOU, YOU ATTACKED ME AGAIN.
YOU CAN EITHER APOLOGIZE OR FACE MY WRATH. YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT I AM CAPABLE OF DOING. TAKE YOUR PICK. I SUGGEST YOU APOLOGIZE."

In addition, I strongly suspect that the poster’s ultimate choice of username “ KATY IS A CLOT, KATY IS A CLOT, KATY IS A CLOT, KATY IS A CLOT, KATY IS A CLOT, KATY IS A CLOT –" was a veiled comment on me, rather than a genuine nickname of the poster or a reference to Morrissey’s work, which is the usual way these are chosen, I understand.

As you know, I did apologize to the poster and was happy to do so – I made an error of interpretation which led to an unjustified accusation of immorality. I would argue that there were mitigating circumstances, but an apology was warranted and I have never been too proud to admit when I am wrong. It was given, as my apologies always are, because of the intellectual thrust of the argument put to me, particularly by Worm, and my rational consideration and acceptance of the case. However, it does seem to me that weaker characters than I may well have been intimidated by the sort of language used above into issuing an apology where the case was considerably weaker and did not benefit from such powerful advocates.

By making this comment I’m not trying to disturb waters (and water beetles that sit peacefully upon those waters) that have been settled a while but rather using this example to make a more general point regarding our responsibilities as posters and appreciators of Morrissey’s talent. I’ve returned to the board to see that a discussion rages regarding aggressive language and general abuse of fellow- Morrissey fans. I have not followed it in detail and pass no judgement on those involved, but it does seem to me to be both against the spirit of what Morrissey represents (if I may, as a “fan” of relatively recent standing be allowed to make such a judgement) and unfortunate in terms of the development of the “community” and the retention of casual visitors such as myself. (It is only fair to point out that I have also seen many instances of people posting thought-provoking comments on Morrissey –related issues, as well as improving the board with interesting pictures of the higher animals, friendly discussions on various sports and the like)

I know the poster was very kind about you in his/her post and I’m sure he/she was accurate in his/her description of your many qualities. I hope too, that you manage to have that cup of coffee and the discussions on critically linguistical theory that he/she so looks forward to (if, indeed, you have not managed it already!).

I’m sure that the bitterness in the post does not reflect the normal character of the poster – we are all capable of flying into the occasional rage – and once again, I emphasize that I do not wish to revisit old ground (or absolve my self from blame for my errors) – but rather to point out that praise for posts from respected contributors such as yourself, solely or even partially on the grounds that they contain “righteous rage” may encourage others, of less stable outlook than you, I or the poster, to view this as desirable behaviour. I notice that, shortly after the post in question, Sebastian makes a short post wishing death upon me. I can’t help but wonder whether, without the aggression in the original post, he would have felt quite so comfortable making public such a sentiment on a board such as this.

I’m an infrequent visitor here, but it would be nice to think that, when I do decide to log in for some Morrissey related information, or to add my thoughts to discussion of his work, I can do so without being accused of being a clot or death being wished upon me. If I do meet this response in future , I may have to give serious consideration to limiting my visits; without being overly immodest, this could be something of a pity for the board; as well as a strong ethical stance I can offer several insights into Morrissey’s work. For instance, did you know that there may be a connection between the song “Roy’s Keen” (from the Album Maladjusted (1997))and an obscure English soccer player? I’ll leave you thinking about that one – let’s hope that the atmosphere on the board stays a healthy one – if so I promise to be back with more of the same!

Here's a cute bunny picture.




http://www.morrissey-solo.com/discuss/images/pic141686.jpg

[Katy]

Many thanks for taking the time to intervene in the discussion and to expand so eloquently upon the argument (which I was initially dismissive of but now accept) that I had misinterpreted the original posting. You may have noticed that I have apologized for the accusation I made regarding the morality of the poster’s statement. Upon reflection, I can see that others were also trying to make this point, although rather more clumsily, and I should have realized my error sooner. I take responsibility, of course, for this, though I am bound to say that my misunderstanding was certainly aided by the tenor of the posts I received in response, which were generally hostile and in some cases, extremely aggressive.

If I may say so, I found your post to be a model of intellectual clarity; you made your points forcefully without resorting to profanity or abuse. Unfortunately, it seems that many on this site consider that vile abuse is the correct response to one who is guilty of nothing more than an honest misinterpretation of another’s argument. The matter was further complicated by the fact that the poster in question (if I interpret his/her final post correctly) changed usernames each time he/she responded. This is likely to lead to a degree of confusion, certainly to those relatively new to the site.

Also, I think it fair to point out that, as I’m sure you are aware, there are various accepted dictionary definitions of the word “mere”; I think most reasonable people would concede that, in this case, I had correctly understood the meaning of the ”word”, as used, if not the meaning of the sentence in its entirety. i.e. I had realised that what was meant was “being nothing more than something specified” rather than “a lake or marsh” or “a short flat maori striking weapon”.

I would like to clarify one suggestion made in your otherwise exemplary response, when you give me “extra credit for the almost verbatim parroting of Edmund Burke”. As I have received little credit for my posts so far in this thread, it may seem a little churlish of me to refuse it when offered. However, I must admit that I am not familiar with the work of Mr Burke and am unsure as to which of my thoughts you feel I have “parroted” from him.

You will note that in my post I referred, appropriately, to a Morrissey lyric, which I clearly indicated by the use of quotation marks. Had I wished to “parrot” another writer, however undistinguished, I would have felt ethically (and professionally) obliged to use quotes in his case too. My next point may appear immodest, but I do feel obliged to make it given the possible negative connotations of your parenthesized point. Have you considered the possibility that the “idea- flow” was operating in the opposite direction to that which you assume? Without giving too much away regarding my standing in progressive circles, it is not at all impossible that a writer seeking status within that community would find himself, possibly inadvertently, expounding ideas that were originally mine. Of course I make no accusations, and co-incidence remains by far the most likely explanation.

But thank you overall for your response and particularly for your acknowledgement that despite my small error, you recognize the main purpose of my postings and in your own fine words the “justness of the defense of morality” that I have been keen to promote in this forum. I realize, of course, that the main purpose of this message board, is to celebrate, the work of an exceptional musician, and upon my return here I’m pleased to note that the release of the “Quarrymen” album is almost upon us; but if there is to be a secondary purpose I could not think of a more noble one than “the defense of morality”. Striving in that defense of morality, we may make the occasional understandable mistake, such as mine in this case, but surely it is more important that we try do defend the innocent and vulnerable when they appear to be attacked by the strong, at the risk of occasional embarrassment, rather than stand by and let evil occur.

Issues of discrimination against those perceived as different to “us”, indicating that they may somehow be “lesser” human beings have always been important to me. I have at least one child and my fervent desire is that when he/she/they they grow up they will be judged by the content of his/her /their character rather than his/her/their gender, his/her/their sexuality, the color of his/her/their skin or any disabilities he/she/they may have (he/she/they don’t actually have any, currently, but that does not affect my wider point).

Of one thing we can be sure, whatever the musical qualities of the new Morrissey record, there will be nothing in the lyrics which dissent from that noble thought.

> "Mr. Blair & Mr. Bush, should both be tried for war crimes, and
> publicly hung for the mass murder of thousands of Iraqis, many of whom
> were mere civilians."

> This sentence is an unequivocal expression of moral disgust over the
> invasion and occupation of Iraq by the United States and the United
> Kingdom. The final clause, which for some reason has confused you, Katy,
> is an amplification of the writer's point, not a deflationary
> qualification. To justify your outrage it would have to read something
> like "(even though many of them were merely civilians)".

> Furthermore, in advocating a war crimes trial, and by distinguishing
> soldiers from "mere" civilians, the writer also implies a
> knowledge of and respect for international law, namely the Geneva
> Convention, which does stipulate a hierarchy of acceptable human losses in
> war time. This hierarchy therefore allows for the use of "mere"
> as a modifier indicating degree of validity as a military target (in this
> case, "little" or "no" validity). Naturally we all
> quail at the thought of assigning value to human beings as if they were
> chess pieces, Katy, but, on the other hand, these laws are intended to
> carry the standard of compassion which you have so enthusiastically taken
> up on your own.

> In short, as Chill rightly said, you're all saying the same thing.

> Surely there are few in the world who would deny the justness of your
> defense of morality, although if they are out there they're probably
> frequent contributors to this message board.

> (Oh, extra credit for the almost verbatim parroting of Edmund Burke.)

> Sorry to have to pile on, but your antagonists are correct. I'm an
> ex-English major too, and you know we're sticklers. Pests, actually, but
> as you know language is so important.

[Katy is a stupid bitch who never learns to move on.]

The point is just dawning on you now bird brain? Nearly 4 months after the fact. Your post should be re-titled "The Danger in just being a total imbecile." Join the Peace Corps Ms. Goodie Two Shoes. You are lucky I don't set BG & Chill on your arse.

[Katy is a stupid bitch who never learns to move on.]

You fucking cunt! How many times does Chill have to explain her position, and how many times do you need qualification? I remember you & your dumb take on the word "mere." After numerous posts to try and enlighten you, in the hopes that some epiphany would hit you like a bolt of lighting and make you see the true intention of the post, Chill used the words "righteous indignation." Now you are questioning that nearly 4 months later? What do you do when you take a shit, Katy? I mean do you look up a word in the dictionary and then do mental masturbation & gymnastics to see how you can pervert that word and all its reasonable connotations? You dumb bitch. Nobody is saying that there are not multiple interpretations and definitions for words. Everyone concedes that language is a dynamic evolving thing. But you take the simplest words and phrases and do the most patently obscene things to them...you are like a word pornographer. I sincerely hope you have a PHD and are at some reasonably decent University, lecturing twice a week for 4 hours total, and keeping 2 office hours on Tuesday where nobody comes around and you spend most of the time sleeping. Then, after doing 6 hours worth of work, and getting paid for 40 hours, you get inspired and decide to bastardize the English language again. You remind me of my Profs. in Uni., except for the fact that they knew what they were talking about, and unlike you were not nincompoops. Mindy & BG can be annoying as fuck, but you are by far the most irritating person who passes through here. Your every post is like nails being dug into and dragged down a chalk board. It's enough to go running into the night screaming. Do not venture into the realm of Katy people of Moz-Solo, for that way lies madness.

[Katy is a stupid bitch who never learns to move on.]

The “best post ever."

You bitch? Chill was just expressing her "in the moment feelings." Have you heard of those, Katy, you yeast infected bucket of pig puss?

"Though I have to say the rather calmer, more measured response by Worm was much more influential in leading me to conclude that my assumptions regarding the initial post were erroneous."

Worm? Yeah he is great. He's not a retard like you.

"I think, is that the level of abuse contained in the posts does tend to detract significantly from the arguments made. Strangely, you seem to see this as a positive point."

You skank! Chill never said that. At that point, certain people would have liked to see bludgeoned with a large blunt object, so the abuse was an expression of our cumulative frustration with your stupidity.

"In addition, I strongly suspect that the poster’s ultimate choice of username “ KATY IS A CLOT, KATY IS A CLOT, KATY IS A CLOT, KATY IS A CLOT, KATY IS A CLOT, KATY IS A CLOT –" was a veiled comment on me, rather than a genuine nickname of the poster or a reference to Morrissey’s work, which is the usual way these are chosen, I understand."

How fucking dumb are you? It was not veiled at all, you flipping clot. It was right there in your dumb face.

"For instance, did you know that there may be a connection between the song “Roy’s Keen” (from the Album Maladjusted (1997))and an obscure English soccer player? I’ll leave you thinking about that one."

You fucking dunce! Roy Keane was "obscure?" You are doing these things to purposefully provoke, finger, prick, prod, and elicit abusive responses. Obscure you tosser?

I fucking dare you, I double dare you to come back to this site, Katy.

_________

Roy Keane

City of Birth
Cork, 10/8/1971

Weight
76.64 kg

Height
180 cm

Team
Manchester United

Position
Midfield

Appearances with Club
420

Goals Scored with Club
49

International Caps
58 (Rep Ireland)

International Goals
9

Roy Keane was born in Cork on 10 October 1971.

After failing to get an apprenticeship with any English League clubs, Keane began his footballing career with Cobh Ramblers before Brian Clough took him to Nottingham Forest as an 18 year old. His League debut with Nottingham Forest was a real baptism of fire away to Liverpool, the then champions. At the end of his first full season Keane made an appearance in the 1991 FA Cup Final, collecting a runners up medal.

His performances, however, had not gone unnoticed by the Republic of Ireland manager Jack Charlton, who gave him his first full international cap in May 1991. A season later he was again on the losing side again at Wembley, with Nottingham Forest losing 1-0 to Manchester United in the League Cup final. His luck with Nottingham Forest did not improve any as Forest got relegated the following season. In the close season the race for Roy Keane's signature began, with United emerging the victors paying a then club and English record fee of £3.75 million.

Whilst he has been at Manchester United, his ball winning skills, drive, determination and late runs into the box to score vital goals have made him an irreplaceable figure in United's midfield, so much so that he is often compared to the ex-United player Bryan Robson. He has helped United to win six Premier League Championships, including two doubles in 1994 and 1996 and is currently the team captain. He also participated in the 1994 World Cup Finals and is a regular international for the Republic of Ireland.

At the end of the 1996/97 season, when Eric Cantona retired from professional football, Keane took over the role of team captain. However less than two months into the season Keane injured his knee and spent a frustrating season on the sidelines.

Many pundits felt that towards the end of that season when United were faltering, it was his presence and determination which the team sorely missed, and in the end was a crucial factor in the championship ending up at Highbury. Fortunately for Manchester United, Keane fought his way back to full fitness to lead the team out, at Wembley, in the 1998 pre season Charity Shield.

If Keane's presence and quality was missed by all at United in the 1997/98 season, then it was surely missed by Ireland too. A full international, Keane participated in the 1994 World Cup finals in the USA and has played at International level for almost eight years. His injury in September 1997 coincided with Irelands Word Cup qualifying campaign. As United failed to win any silverware in his absence, Ireland failed to qualify for the 1998 World Cup finals in France.

The 1998/99 season saw Roy Keane fully restored to fitness. As the Club reached the climax of that unprecedented pursuit, Roy enjoyed mixed fortunes. A sending-off in the FA Cup semi-final replay was followed by a yellow card in the Champions League semi-final second leg against Juventus, forcing him to miss the memorable final in Barcelona. He recovered from an ankle injury to play in the last League match versus Tottenham and collected the Premiership Trophy. The following week at Wembley, however, he sustained another ankle injury and was forced to give way to Teddy Sheringham in the early stages of the game, knowing that his season had ended there and then.

In Barcelona, despite Keane taking no active part in the match, the fans finally got their way during the post-match celebrations when they insisted on Roy taking his deserved bow with the Champions League trophy in front of the massed ranks.

Roy's contract negotiations fell under the media microscope midway through the 1999/2000 season, when it was revealed that the Club captain had turned down the Club's initial offer.

At the home Champions League match against Valencia, however, it was announced that Keane had signed a new deal. After that, Keane seemed to play with a weight lifted off his shoulders, and the captain led by example, as ever. Over the course of the season Keane found the net a remarkable twelve times, with half of those coming in Europe. A superb season from the skipper was recognised by both the Football Writers and the Professional Footballers Association, who both voted him Player of the Year.

Keane was arguably even more influential during season 2000/2001, leading the team to a seventh Championship title.

On the international front he was also an inspiration, winning his 50th cap in the Republic's 4-0 win over Cyprus.

Roy's form helped the Republic qualify for the 2002 World Cup finals, despite being in a group containing both Portugal and Holland. Once out in the Far East, though, Roy caused the biggest story of the tournament before it had even begun. Following a row with manager Mick McCarthy, Keano was sent home in disgrace.

Newspapers were full of speculation as to what had happened, and reporters camped outside Roy's house. The media storm quickly passed, however, as Ireland progressed in the tournament.

After months of speculation Roy finally retired from international football on medical grounds. His autobiography - in which he explained what had happened in Saipan - caused problems as he also intimated he'd injured Manchester City's Alf Inge Haaland on purpose. A five-match ban and a large fine later, Roy checked into hospital for an operation on his hip that kept him out for the first five and a half months of the season.

Roy pledged to calm down on the pitch following his latest op, and his first few appearances after recovering had everyone questioning whether he was finished or not. A barn-storming end to the season, when he led United to the top of the League against all the odds, answered everyone's questions. "I've got two or three good years left in me yet," Roy reassured all Reds.

[CrushingBore]

I don't care that you're clearly thick as hell and post the most self-obsessive shit I've ever read here. The bunnies have won me!!!

If BG chooses to post bunny rabbits at the end of his digital diahorreah, I will love him also.

Bunnies! This site needs more bunnies!!!!

I was forced to eat rabbit for the first time recently and now I want to kill myself!!

Bunnies! Bunnies! Bunnies! Almost as good as goats, which are almost as good as ferrets, which can't however hold a candle to fishies!

Yes, I've been drinking. Leave me alone. I have to go and put that bunny picture on my desktop.

[Katy]

> The point is just dawning on you now bird brain? Nearly 4 months after the
> fact. Your post should be re-titled "The Danger in just being a total
> imbecile." Join the Peace Corps Ms. Goodie Two Shoes. You are lucky I
> don't set BG & Chill on your arse.

Why am I lucky if you don't do this? What exactly does setting them on my arse mean? How can you set them on my arse? Are you particularly close to BG? Are you speaking on his behalf? Is Chill happy to join you on my arse?

[Katy]

Thanks for the info about Roy.

> I fucking dare you, I double dare you to come back to this site, Katy.

I was actually thinking of doing a bit more posting here. Perhaps you could set out the consequences if I do - so I can undertake a risk analysis.

[Katy]

> I don't care that you're clearly thick as hell and post the most
> self-obsessive shit I've ever read here. The bunnies have won me!!!

> If BG chooses to post bunny rabbits at the end of his digital diahorreah,
> I will love him also.

> Bunnies! This site needs more bunnies!!!!

> I was forced to eat rabbit for the first time recently and now I want to
> kill myself!!

> Bunnies! Bunnies! Bunnies! Almost as good as goats, which are almost as
> good as ferrets, which can't however hold a candle to fishies!

> Yes, I've been drinking. Leave me alone. I have to go and put that bunny
> picture on my desktop.

Thank you for the response. I think you judgement of me is within the bounds of reasonable criticism and I won’t take offense. For my part I certainly wouldn’t describe you as unintelligent, though I do find a number of your posts a little on the sycophantic and/or pompous side. But it would be a dull board if we all appreciated the same type of contributions. All part of Life's Rich Tapestry.

Suicide is never a solution. I’m glad you like the picture of the bunny. Here’s a ferret.




http://www.morrissey-solo.com/discuss/images/pic141823.jpg

[Katy]

> Why am I lucky if you don't do this? What exactly does setting them on my
> arse mean? How can you set them on my arse? Are you particularly close to
> BG? Are you speaking on his behalf? Is Chill happy to join you on my arse?

Sorry, of course that should read "Is Chill happy to join BG on my arse?".

[LoafingOaf - The Killer Inside Me]

> I don't care that you're clearly thick as hell and post the most
> self-obsessive shit I've ever read here. The bunnies have won me!!!

> If BG chooses to post bunny rabbits at the end of his digital diahorreah,
> I will love him also.

> Bunnies! This site needs more bunnies!!!!

> I was forced to eat rabbit for the first time recently and now I want to
> kill myself!!

When I was a child, my dog was in the backyard and for some reason was too caught up in some excitement to come inside when called. I went into the bushes to see what's what and she was terrorizing a nest of cute lil newborn bunnies. She had killed one and the others were having heart attacks. I fucking cried all day long. Still don't know what my dad did with the bunnies, and I really don't wanna know. All I know is, the nest was no longer there the next day, and it still haunts me seeing those bunnies suffer.

On another occasion, I saw a rabbit chilling on the backyard lawn and I thought it would be funny (as I often did with squirrels) to let my dog out to have a chase. There was never any harm done previously because animals always heard my dog coming (her tags and whatnot). Anyway, she went into lioness mode, crept up slowly, and got a good jump on the rabbit. The rabbit attempted to get out of the backyard through a tiny opening and GOT CAUGHT IN THE FENCE!!! Like impaled by it and stuck in it. It was abolutely horrifying. I felt pretty guilty..... = (

> Bunnies! Bunnies! Bunnies! Almost as good as goats, which are almost as
> good as ferrets, which can't however hold a candle to fishies!

Do you have an aquarium? Those things are depressing, man. When I had one it was a freaking death tank. The fish all eating each other's fins off and shit. One poor angel fish NEVER fucking left his hiding place behind a plant in the back corner (no one told me angel fish must be in schools). Granted, I probably didn't know what I was doing, but the whole aquarium industry seems kinda evil to me, to both the fish and to the people who are lured into setting up an aquarium thinking it's gonna be beautiful and instead it's a disastor.

[CrushingBore]

> Do you have an aquarium? Those things are depressing, man. When I had one
> it was a freaking death tank. The fish all eating each other's fins off
> and shit. One poor angel fish NEVER fucking left his hiding place behind a
> plant in the back corner (no one told me angel fish must be in schools).
> Granted, I probably didn't know what I was doing, but the whole aquarium
> industry seems kinda evil to me, to both the fish and to the people who
> are lured into setting up an aquarium thinking it's gonna be beautiful and
> instead it's a disastor.

Yeah, the aquarium industry is pretty damn irresponsible - so many rank amateurs think it would be a nice idea for a period of time and these clowns are happy to sell things to them. In addition the way a lot of fish are captured leads to horrendously high death rates - and the saltwater aquarium industry in particular does a lot of environmental damage by paying people to rip protected species out of delicate environments.

I hate to go all 'finding nemo" on ya, but so many people have no idea what they're doing when they set up a tank and kill ridiculous numbers of poor ickle fishies. I like to think I know what I'm doing with my tank after years of experience (and yeah, my fair share of deaths along the way) - I also know my limitations, there are certain very delicate species of fish I know I'm not practiced (or patient enough with maintenace) to handle, so I'll leave them to the real experts.

You've also got to pay heed to the mixture of species you've got in your tank - some fish need to be in schools, some fish should only be kept with their own species, some shouldn't be kept with fish that have elaborate fins, etc.

A good aquarium will guide you through all this, and will only source their fish from legitimate and humane suppliers, but good luck finding one, because for every good one I reckon there's 10 complete dogs!

[LoafingOaf - The Killer Inside Me]

> Yeah, the aquarium industry is pretty damn irresponsible - so many rank
> amateurs think it would be a nice idea for a period of time and these
> clowns are happy to sell things to them. In addition the way a lot of fish
> are captured leads to horrendously high death rates - and the saltwater
> aquarium industry in particular does a lot of environmental damage by
> paying people to rip protected species out of delicate environments.

> I hate to go all 'finding nemo" on ya, but so many people have no
> idea what they're doing when they set up a tank and kill ridiculous
> numbers of poor ickle fishies. I like to think I know what I'm doing with
> my tank after years of experience (and yeah, my fair share of deaths along
> the way) - I also know my limitations, there are certain very delicate
> species of fish I know I'm not practiced (or patient enough with
> maintenace) to handle, so I'll leave them to the real experts.

> You've also got to pay heed to the mixture of species you've got in your
> tank - some fish need to be in schools, some fish should only be kept with
> their own species, some shouldn't be kept with fish that have elaborate
> fins, etc.

> A good aquarium will guide you through all this, and will only source
> their fish from legitimate and humane suppliers, but good luck finding
> one, because for every good one I reckon there's 10 complete dogs!

What kind of fish do you have?

When the average person (like me) starts thinking about how cool a fish tank would be, if you don't think about it enough your instinct is to start small.
Like a ten or twenty gallon tank. And to just buy whatever fish look cool at the store. And it's a guaranteed disastor! You'll buy too many fish, you'll mix fish that should be mixed, you haven't learned how to keep the water clean and it's harder to keep it clean the smaller the tank is. I would sit there and watch the fish in complete stress as they brutalized each other. The only ones that were cool were these little albino algea eating fish who cheerfully cleaned and cleaned the glass and seemed to dig the hiding places I gave them to chill out in. If I were to do it all again, I'd do my fucking research and do it right. However, I think I've killed enough fish in my time, so I'll do the fish world a favor and stay out of that hobby.

Hey, have you heard about those genetically modified fish that are popular in like Tawain and Japan? They took some flourescent gene from jellyish and created aquarium fish that emits flourescent green light.

[LoafingOaf - The Killer Inside Me]

> You'll buy too many fish,
> you'll mix fish that should be mixed,

I meant SHOULDN'T

[Chill]

I love aquariums, but they seem so mean. I'm sticking to cats. They're a lot harder to kill! They can take care of themselves whereas fish in a tank are entirely at your mercy. And some people just suck at taking care of them. (It's kind of the same deal with houseplants.)

On a tangentially related note, I just wrote the most annoying essay of my academic career that revolved around the image of an aquarium in Primo Levi's "Survival in Auschwitz" where I made many of these same points about the nature of aquariums (which explained why Levi would have compared his stay in Auschwitz to being inside an aquarium). Incredibly difficult to argue that their is a cruel side to aquariums when most people (myself included) think they're so beautiful.

[CrushingBore]

You'll buy too many fish,
> you'll mix fish that should be mixed, you haven't learned how to keep the
> water clean and it's harder to keep it clean the smaller the tank is. I
> would sit there and watch the fish in complete stress as they brutalized
> each other.

Okay - here's the deal - firstly, the ideal is not to keep the water "clean" per se. What you really want to do is to breed enough algae in the tank to do that job for you - which actually makes the tank look filthy. Algae will take the fish wastes (nitrogen, phosphates, etc) and turn them into good ol' fashioned oxygen for you. You should always have a tank set up with a bacterial filter for a week or so before even thinking of introducing the ickle fishies themselves, this allows the algae to breed. You should also buy a comprehensive test kit and use it weekly once you've introduced the fishies. But you should seek good professional advice before introducing various species together in a confined space. Angelfish, for instance are not "angels", if you've any small fish around, angels will devour them at a frightening rate. Beware of anything which bears the epithet "barb" as these are notorious "fin-nippers". Some fish love to school and will pine themselves to death without companions. Others need hide-y spaces if they're going to be really happy. Some fish are bottom-feeders and require you have some form of under-gravel filter otherwise they wind up sifting through everyone else's shit all day long, as well as specialised pellets for them to nibble on (clown loaches - my favourite fish being a case in point). Beware of introducing snails - some fish (eg clown loaches) love them, but as they're perverted hemaphrodites they'll reproduce with themselves at a frightening rate of knots and you'll soon wind up over-run.

> Hey, have you heard about those genetically modified fish that are popular
> in like Tawain and Japan? They took some flourescent gene from jellyish
> and created aquarium fish that emits flourescent green light.

I dunno about genetic modification - I've not seen those sold commercially (they've also done this with lab rats) but there are certain fish which will have day-glo colours injected into them to spruce them up a bit. I'm against it because it's wierd, unnatural and sounds so cruel, but it doesn't seem to affect the ickle things too much.

[LoafingOaf]

Dude, you wanna see the cutest motherfucking fish of all time???

This is the fish I almost feel I wanna get another tank for.

A pocupine pufferfish!

I don't know anything about 'em, but I fell in love when I saw this charming puffer named Karl at this web site. Watch Karl swim!

http://www.826valencia.org/store/karl.html

I also sorta wanna rescue some siamese fighting fish. It looks so evil when stores give them just an itsy bitsy little glass of water to live in.

> You'll buy too many fish,

> Okay - here's the deal - firstly, the ideal is not to keep the water
> "clean" per se. What you really want to do is to breed enough
> algae in the tank to do that job for you - which actually makes the tank
> look filthy. Algae will take the fish wastes (nitrogen, phosphates, etc)
> and turn them into good ol' fashioned oxygen for you.

Ah, see, I didn't know all that.

I also overfed the fish because when I was feeding them they took their minds off chasing and nipping each other to death.

But someone who doesn't know what they're doing really shouldn't have a small tank because the water gets more fucked up a lot easier.

My brother had a ten gallon tank once and he came home one night and ALL the fish were suddenly dead. Have you ever seen that happen before? It was like they all fucking had a suicide pact together that night. I think the water got poisoned somehow or something. I did put a banana in that tank once, but that was way before so I don't think it killed em.

>You should always
> have a tank set up with a bacterial filter for a week or so before even
> thinking of introducing the ickle fishies themselves, this allows the
> algae to breed. You should also buy a comprehensive test kit and use it
> weekly once you've introduced the fishies. But you should seek good
> professional advice before introducing various species together in a
> confined space. Angelfish, for instance are not "angels", if
> you've any small fish around, angels will devour them at a frightening
> rate.

My angel fish...I guess because he was the only angel fish, he didn't fuck with anybody. He just sat in the corner and cried. It broke my heart. I had to like make sure some food dropped near him. He'd barely inch out to even grab his share. I was like begging him to be happy. I should've bought another tank for him with some the other angel fish friends. = (

>Beware of anything which bears the epithet "barb" as these
> are notorious "fin-nippers".

Yup, I had some barbs. Tiger barbs. And then some like reddish colored ones.
Those tiger barbs were vicious, man. Those were some of the more successful fish I had, though, outside of their terrorism to the other fish. Yeah, I think most of them lived for almost a year.

>Some fish love to school and will
> pine themselves to death without companions.

I'm sorry, angel fishie!!!!

> Others need hide-y spaces if
> they're going to be really happy. Some fish are bottom-feeders and require
> you have some form of under-gravel filter otherwise they wind up sifting
> through everyone else's shit all day long, as well as specialised pellets
> for them to nibble on (clown loaches - my favourite fish being a case in
> point).

I had a clown loach! Guess what? He died too.

Found him stuck to the filter intake. = (

He was righteous while he lasted though.

>Beware of introducing snails - some fish (eg clown loaches) love
> them, but as they're perverted hemaphrodites they'll reproduce with
> themselves at a frightening rate of knots and you'll soon wind up
> over-run.

> I dunno about genetic modification - I've not seen those sold commercially
> (they've also done this with lab rats) but there are certain fish which
> will have day-glo colours injected into them to spruce them up a bit. I'm
> against it because it's wierd, unnatural and sounds so cruel, but it
> doesn't seem to affect the ickle things too much.

[LoafingOaf]

> I love aquariums, but they seem so mean. I'm sticking to cats. They're a
> lot harder to kill! They can take care of themselves whereas fish in a
> tank are entirely at your mercy. And some people just suck at taking care
> of them. (It's kind of the same deal with houseplants.)

I'd like to have a cat someday. I've always just have dogs. I live for dogs.
I once had some ducks too. But yeah, I'm a dog person.

> On a tangentially related note, I just wrote the most annoying essay of my
> academic career that revolved around the image of an aquarium in Primo
> Levi's "Survival in Auschwitz" where I made many of these same
> points about the nature of aquariums (which explained why Levi would have
> compared his stay in Auschwitz to being inside an aquarium). Incredibly
> difficult to argue that their is a cruel side to aquariums when most
> people (myself included) think they're so beautiful.

Do you ever post any of these essays online somewhere? That one sounds interesting.

[CrushingBore - "I've been up to Villiers Terrace"]

> Dude, you wanna see the cutest motherfucking fish of all time???

> This is the fish I almost feel I wanna get another tank for.

> A pocupine pufferfish!

Hehehehe. That's sweet. You almost wanna hug the little guy - except you know you'd live to regret it. Only problem with your puffer-ambitions is that they're saltwater - and that means mega-high maintenance, and you do really need to know what you're doing. I've never gone there because saltwater stuff's soooo expensive. You need special filters that replicate tidal/wave flows, etc. And you need a really big tank, and you can't have many fish in it because saltwater fish need a lot more oxygen than freshwater ones.

I do actually have a puffer fish myself, but it's stuffed. Literally, I mean. Her name's Ethel. I was going to take her to my Sales Conference and threaten to throw her at people when they became unruly, but was over-ruled on that one. Those spikes are sharper than you could possibly imagine!

I also sorta wanna rescue
> some siamese fighting fish. It looks so evil when stores give them just an
> itsy bitsy little glass of water to live in.

Amen to that. And as for people that actually buy them to fight and gamble with - you should all be locked up in a maximum security ward with rapists and psycopaths and we'll place bets on you!

> My brother had a ten gallon tank once and he came home one night and ALL
> the fish were suddenly dead. Have you ever seen that happen before? It was
> like they all fucking had a suicide pact together that night. I think the
> water got poisoned somehow or something. I did put a banana in that tank
> once, but that was way before so I don't think it killed em.

I haven't seen it, but it sure can happen. Fish are basically all a'swimmin' round in their own crap and piss. The algae in your tank and filter will convert all these nasties into friendly oxygen, but if the ammonia/phosphate levels get too high it'll quickly kill your algae, and then your fish will follow very rapidly. People get obsessed with cleaning algae out of tanks, and that's really wrong. It might look unsightly, but a lot of algae is actually the sign of a healthy tank. Water should be tested regularly. Of course the other cause could be the heater malfunctioning, but I assume your friend checked that.

Oh and WTF!!!!! A banana in the tank???? What the hell inspired that? Admit it - you were stoned, weren't you? Isn't there a Cure song called "Bananafishbones"?

> My angel fish...I guess because he was the only angel fish, he didn't fuck
> with anybody. He just sat in the corner and cried. It broke my heart. I
> had to like make sure some food dropped near him. He'd barely inch out to
> even grab his share. I was like begging him to be happy. I should've
> bought another tank for him with some the other angel fish friends. = (

Stop it. I'm gonna cry!!!!! Angels only usually get aggro when they get big, anyway. They'll be fine for years, but suddenly when they're big enough anything that will fit in their mouths will look like lunch.

> Yup, I had some barbs. Tiger barbs. And then some like reddish colored
> ones.
> Those tiger barbs were vicious, man. Those were some of the more
> successful fish I had, though, outside of their terrorism to the other
> fish. Yeah, I think most of them lived for almost a year.

Tiger barbs are the worst. They look great and they're pretty hardy, but they're little bastards.

> I had a clown loach! Guess what? He died too.
> Found him stuck to the filter intake. = (
> He was righteous while he lasted though.

Clown loaches are my favourite fish - but they're at the more difficult end of the spectrum. I had one once called "Ken" (geddit?). Ideally they should be fed live food once a week (they dig worms - frozen ones will do), and they're way shy bottom-feeders. You should drop some special pellets for bottom-feeders (that sounds really wrong, doesn't it?) in the tank before you switch out the light at night, and then your loach will come out and happily munch. You'd be able to tell when Ken came out 'cos he'd make these cute ickle sucking noises when he was chewing on the pellets that were seriously audible metres away. Again, with bottom feeders, it's best to have an under-gravel filter which will suck other fishies turds all the way to the bottom of the gravel - otherwise your loach spends its life rolling round in everyone else's shit.

[Let's Go Devils and Celtic]

I hope you guys don't mind, but I wanted to share this with you(any opportunity to show pictures of my cat).




http://www.morrissey-solo.com/discuss/images/pic142087.jpg

[Chill]

> I'd like to have a cat someday. I've always just have dogs. I live for
> dogs.
> I once had some ducks too. But yeah, I'm a dog person.

Cats rule. I used to want birds, but they're messy and smell. My roommate got a rat behind my back recently. I don't mind too much, but the little sucker has some nasty claws.

> Do you ever post any of these essays online somewhere? That one sounds
> interesting.

Trust me, it's not interesting. It's for one of those general ed writing classes which, even though I am an English major, I have to take. We write 4 pages essays on prompts which could be mistaken for AP essay topics. One size fits all general education blows.

[LoafingOaf]

> Hehehehe. That's sweet. You almost wanna hug the little guy - except you
> know you'd live to regret it. Only problem with your puffer-ambitions is
> that they're saltwater - and that means mega-high maintenance, and you do
> really need to know what you're doing.

Hmm. Maybe someday I'll just hire somebody to set it up for me. I need a porcupine puffer in my life, dammit!!!

>I've never gone there because
> saltwater stuff's soooo expensive. You need special filters that replicate
> tidal/wave flows, etc. And you need a really big tank, and you can't have
> many fish in it because saltwater fish need a lot more oxygen than
> freshwater ones.

Do you have several tanks? Someone I know has this room with like ten aquariums. He's addicted to em.

In my fantasy house - the one I'd show on Cribs - I'd have a whole fucking wall aquarium, with like sharks and eels and shit in it. A tank so big I could fucking put on scuba gear and join em!

Hmm, but then i'd have to feed the sharks other fish, huh?

HMMM. A big tank with something nicer than sharks I guess. But a shark sure would look cool.

> I do actually have a puffer fish myself, but it's stuffed. Literally, I
> mean. Her name's Ethel. I was going to take her to my Sales Conference and
> threaten to throw her at people when they became unruly, but was
> over-ruled on that one. Those spikes are sharper than you could possibly
> imagine!

I don't mind the spikes. Me and my puffer would just kiss each other through the glass.

>Amen to that. And as for people that actually buy them to fight and gamble >with - you should all be locked up in a maximum security ward with rapists and >psycopaths and we'll place bets on you!

And pet shop owners should be put into a container an inch bigger than their bodies and see how they like it!

> I haven't seen it, but it sure can happen. Fish are basically all
> a'swimmin' round in their own crap and piss. The algae in your tank and
> filter will convert all these nasties into friendly oxygen, but if the
> ammonia/phosphate levels get too high it'll quickly kill your algae, and
> then your fish will follow very rapidly. People get obsessed with cleaning
> algae out of tanks, and that's really wrong. It might look unsightly, but
> a lot of algae is actually the sign of a healthy tank. Water should be
> tested regularly. Of course the other cause could be the heater
> malfunctioning, but I assume your friend checked that.

It could've been the heater. My brother had a heater that he had lots of problems with. Sometimes it wouldn't go on and off and the water would get REALLY hot. But I don't think that's what killed em.
It was something with the water.

> Oh and WTF!!!!! A banana in the tank???? What the hell inspired that?
> Admit it - you were stoned, weren't you? Isn't there a Cure song called
> "Bananafishbones"?

No! I was just a kid. I was eating a banana and thought the fish might like a banana too. My brother tried to blame all the fish dying on me putting stuff like that in there. He was very upset about the mass deaths.

> Tiger barbs are the worst. They look great and they're pretty hardy, but
> they're little bastards.

I liked how they swarmed around when eating.

> Clown loaches are my favourite fish - but they're at the more difficult
> end of the spectrum. I had one once called "Ken" (geddit?).
> Ideally they should be fed live food once a week (they dig worms - frozen
> ones will do), and they're way shy bottom-feeders. You should drop some
> special pellets for bottom-feeders (that sounds really wrong, doesn't it?)
> in the tank before you switch out the light at night, and then your loach
> will come out and happily munch. You'd be able to tell when Ken came out
> 'cos he'd make these cute ickle sucking noises when he was chewing on the
> pellets that were seriously audible metres away. Again, with bottom
> feeders, it's best to have an under-gravel filter which will suck other
> fishies turds all the way to the bottom of the gravel - otherwise your
> loach spends its life rolling round in everyone else's shit.

Do you have a web cam? You should post a pic of your fishies!!

[LoafingOaf]

> I hope you guys don't mind, but I wanted to share this with you(any
> opportunity to show pictures of my cat).

Heh! = )

[LoafingOaf]

> Cats rule. I used to want birds, but they're messy and smell. My roommate
> got a rat behind my back recently. I don't mind too much, but the little
> sucker has some nasty claws.

There was a story in a British paper a few weeks ago of someone claiming to still have Winston Churchill's parrot! Like a 100 year old parrot. And he's say stuff like "Fuck Hitler" that Chirchill had taught him. But I think people said that was probably a hoax. Would be cool if true!

That site I post to Bore with the puffer fish, it's a pirate gear store! You could buy pirate gear and then get a parrot and be the coolest girl in California, and walk around with the parrot on your shoulder and have him quote Morrissey lyrics.

> Trust me, it's not interesting. It's for one of those general ed writing
> classes which, even though I am an English major, I have to take. We write
> 4 pages essays on prompts which could be mistaken for AP essay topics. One
> size fits all general education blows.

[Chill]

I already am the coolest girl in California. Duh!

Just kidding.

And oh yeah, fuck Hitler! But not in the good way!

[CrushingBore - "I've been up to Villiers Terrace"]

> Do you have a web cam? You should post a pic of your fishies!!

No web cam I'm afraid, and only one active tank at present. My digital camera's away being repaired since someone put a curse on it, when I get that back I'll post some piccies.

[anonnymouse]

I wants her to ride me bone pony!

[Ruffian]

[Let's Go Devils and Celtic]

thanks you should hear her purrrrrrrr.

[D Attenborough]

* Almost certainly a montage.




http://www.morrissey-solo.com/discuss/images/pic142577.jpg

[Mr.Maturity]