Now, now...No one flame me for an honest question.

[Kris]

So is Moz gay/Bi/Straight?

A girlfriend of mine insists he is a gay boy but...

Just something I was wondering about...

kh

[jack]

> So is Moz gay/Bi/Straight?¿ A girlfriend of mine insists he is a gay boy but...¿ Just something I was wondering about...¿ kh
It doesn't really matter now does it? Sure there are plenty of songs, quotes, etc that point to celibacy, homosexual and heterosexual lifestyles, whatever he is is fine with me. Personally i don't care either way. One thing we all know is that he is a PRACTICING TROUBLEMAKER!!!

[Kris]

No, I suppose it doesn't really matter.

I guess it's just a source of on-going debate between me and my girlfriends/gay friends....something I wanted to put closure to.

Ah well, if anyone knows for sure...do speak up.

kh

[Miss Krystal]

> No, I suppose it doesn't really matter.

Actually, I think that it does matter.

And for the record, celibacy has no bearing whatsoever on a person's sexuality in and of itself. Someone who is unfortunate enough to be heterosexual but doesn't have sex is still very much a heterosexual.

As for Morrissey, whether or not he's getting any right now, he is and always has been a big old queen. Look at the man, it's written ALL OVER HIS FACE (not to mention the lyrics, let's start with "This Charming Man" and work up to "Wide to Receive".) Those of you who are too naive, young, or insecure to deal with this should spend a bit more time living lives instead of trying to find hidden meanings in "Dagenham Dave."

Morrissey has never denied being gay; this would be ridiculous and laughable, at best. But he'd rather not be a spokesperson for the lads in Old Compton, Chelsea or the Castro, understandably. I think this is unfortunate since there is a sea of lonely boys and girls out there who could do with the bit of encouragement that would be provided by knowing that there is more to the gay world than Erasure and "Will and Grace."

[boyleastlikelytoo(kakarot)]

moz isn't gay and i may be young but I have been around gay men before and I do belive if moz was a flamer he wouldn't be hiding it...by saying he was celibate or what not....as for his lyrics..yes sometimes they do sound a bit homo..you might say...but I think it all depends on whether or not you want to read that into them....i still don't understand why it matters that much...its people like you that can't see the music for other things, i say he isn't gay he just writes songs from a differnet standpoint, then the normal lyricistand remember he didn't write all the songs..he just sung them........
kakarot

[Kris]

>> Too naive, young, or insecure to deal with this should spend a bit more time living lives instead of trying to find hidden meanings in "Dagenham Dave."

*Looks up from meticuliously reviewing the DD lyrics*

Too naive, young, and insecure to deal with homosexuality? Wow. It's like you had a window to my soul...

And you are right little miss, I should spend more time living life!

*Skips out of the basement he has been shut-in to for the last 6 months*

Add another mere educated guess to the debate.

kh-

[Lifeguard Pretending to sleep, but watching girl drowning and laughing quietly]

> Someone who is unfortunate¿ enough to be heterosexual but doesn't have sex is still very¿ much a heterosexual.

Unfortunate? Hmmm...do we have a heterophobe in our midst?
Tisk-tisk, no es bueno.¿ As for Morrissey, whether or not he's getting any right now, he¿ is and always has been a big old queen.

Queen? When I think "queen," I think of "Priscilla, Queen of the Jungle." Morrissey doesn't strike me as a queen.¿ it's written ALL OVER HIS FACE

Huh?!? He looks pretty much like a man, to me.¿ Morrissey has never denied being gay; this would be ridiculous¿ and laughable, at best. But he'd rather not be a spokesperson¿ for the lads in Old Compton, Chelsea or the Castro,¿ understandably.

Look, he's known to have had relations with both men AND women so, if anything, he's "bi" (to use these tired old labels). IMO, Kris, he chooses not to label himself a certain way, so no one's to say, for sure. Let's respect the man's opinion and not try to force him into any little box.¿ I think this is unfortunate since there is a sea¿ of lonely boys and girls out there who could do with the bit of¿ encouragement that would be provided by knowing that there is¿ more to the gay world than Erasure and "Will and¿ Grace."

Help and encouragement? How could Morrissey possibly help them with that? He's got his own issues to deal with. I dunno...turn to Michael Stipe, I suppose.

[Edju]

Tsk. tsk. You've stepped into the realm of no return. There's no winning or understanding on this issue. There will be those who scream on both sides and those who simply do not care. Do you?
About Morrissey's sexuality? His sex? Does he have sex? Etc.

I just love when people get all sillied up over the issue of sexuality, particularly when it isn't their own, i.e. people insisting that Morrissey is or is not gay. I used to be one of the people, of which kind you'll never know. What I'll say is that people will see what they want despite what is evident to the contrary. We see this in all aspects of our everyday lives. There is much to point to to say Morrissey is gay.
Then there is that fact that he often writes gender neutral lyrics. This is often ran up the flagpole as evidence that he is NOT gay. Whatever the case may be he appeals to both sides and he, and ONLY he, knows the real deal.

BTW---I find it somewhat, no, very offensive for gay people to be referred to as "flamers." I forget your name, whoever wrote that, but it's not nice to relegate an entire population/segment of society who represent EVERY aspect of society to one squibbly little, objectifying, divisive, shameful, insulting word.

EDJU

[Miss Krystal]

¿ Queen? When I think "queen," I think of¿ "Priscilla, Queen of the Jungle." Morrissey doesn't¿ strike me as a queen.

It's Pricillia, Queen of the Desert. And amongst gay men (at least where I've lived), the term "queen" is used widely and indiscriminately. In other words, for gay men, all gay men are queens. The term does not imply that he's saving up for breast implants by performing Judy Garland nightly in some dank bar.¿ Look, he's known to have had relations with both men AND women¿ so, if anything, he's "bi" (to use these tired old¿ labels). IMO, Kris, he chooses not to label himself a certain¿ way, so no one's to say, for sure. Let's respect the man's¿ opinion and not try to force him into any little box.

My name is Miss Krystal. Kris is someone else entirely.

Alot of us have had sexual relationships with both men and women. Just because I've had sex with a woman does not mean that I'm "bi." In the same way that men who have sex with men, in prison, the navy or the boy scouts are not necessarily "bi", just horny.¿ Help and encouragement? How could Morrissey possibly help them¿ with that? He's got his own issues to deal with. I dunno...turn¿ to Michael Stipe, I suppose.

No, I suppose you're right; Morrissey would be a pretty horrible person to look up too. But Michael Stipe... you might as well hand them a pistol right now.

And I must agree with the fellow who objected to the use of the word "flamer." It is juvenile, weak and passe. If you want to insult someone, please widen your vocabulary.

[Jamie]

> As for Morrissey, whether or not he's getting any right now, he¿ is and always has been a big old queen. Look at the man, it's¿ written ALL OVER HIS FACE (not to mention the lyrics, let's¿ start with "This Charming Man" and work up to¿ "Wide to Receive".) Those of you who are too naive,¿ young, or insecure to deal with this should spend a bit more¿ time living lives instead of trying to find hidden meanings in¿ "Dagenham Dave."

I don't believe there is a single line in "Wide to Receive" to support your argument. In your INTERPRETATION, mayhaps--but certainly not in any explicit (no pun intended) sense. That conjures up the image of some half-wits out in the provinces thinking Morrissey is singing about looking up gay porn on the net.

Cheers,

Jamie

[Jamie]

> moz isn't gay and i may be young but I have been around gay men¿ before and I do belive if moz was a flamer he wouldn't be hiding¿ it...by saying he was celibate or what not....

I must take issue to this, as well, since one of my best friends is gay and very, very BUTCH. I'm afraid, young sir, that you have only had contact with the stereotypical gay man. In fact, my friend was thought to be heterosexual by all but his closest compatriots. I'm not calling you ignorant, merely pointing out you have only been exposed to one fork in the road of homosexuality.

Cheers,

Jamie

[Miss Krystal]

"I don't believe there is a single line in "Wide to Receive" to support your argument. In your INTERPRETATION, mayhaps--but certainly not in any explicit (no pun intended) sense. That conjures up the image of some half-wits out in the provinces thinking Morrissey is singing about looking up gay porn on the net."

I suppose that many people would think that. However, I never once gave you my interpretation of the aforementioned song. I simply referred to it because it was the only one off that dreadful last record with a memorable title. And like it or not, there is certainly something implied by a title like "Wide to Receive." I should point out that this was printed in large letters across the asses of many recent tour t-shirts. What do you think he meant by that?

I'm sure that alot of half-wits think alot of things about Morrissey songs, but I wouldn't limit them to the provinces.

[pippi short]

>..turn¿ to Michael Stipe, I suppose.

I love Michael's reply a few years ago when he was questioned about his sexual preferences. He said that it was nobody's business what he was unless they happened to sitting in his lap. A great answer!

[sam shuster]

> So is Moz gay/Bi/Straight?¿ A girlfriend of mine insists he is a gay boy but...¿ Just something I was wondering about...¿ kh

Did you ever see the conan O'Brian skit where Max Weinberg is having sex with a clone of himself? I think that's what Moz is looking for.

[Kris]

Hehe.

Well, isn't it?

kh

[Lifeguard Sleeping]

> It's Pricillia, Queen of the Desert.

Oops, sorry.

And amongst gay men (at¿ least where I've lived), the term "queen" is used¿ widely and indiscriminately. In other words, for gay men, all¿ gay men are queens.

Right, I understand that. It's a hip and trendy term, but not all gay men see themselves as queens. All I meant was that I don't think Morrissey would ever go for that term - he's even said in interviews that he wanted to cut down the image of the "macho male" without resorting to over-the-top posturing like Boy George (please forgive me - don't recall his exact terms).¿ My name is Miss Krystal. Kris is someone else entirely.

I know; I was addressing the original poster (to answer her question).¿ Alot of us have had sexual relationships with both men and¿ women. Just because I've had sex with a woman does not mean that¿ I'm "bi." In the same way that men who have sex with¿ men, in prison, the navy or the boy scouts are not necessarily¿ "bi", just horny.

Exactly - that's why I don't agree with labels.¿ No, I suppose you're right; Morrissey would be a pretty horrible¿ person to look up too. But Michael Stipe... you might as well¿ hand them a pistol right now.

Ohhh, Mike ENJOYS being a big ole queen! Love the blue glittery eye shadow, BTW! ; )

[Lifeguard Sleeping]

Now there's something for the medical world to work on! If it worked for Dolly...

[Beatnick/James/Jim Springheeled]

> Actually, I think that it does matter.¿ And for the record, celibacy has no bearing whatsoever on a¿ person's sexuality in and of itself. Someone who is unfortunate¿ enough to be heterosexual but doesn't have sex is still very¿ much a heterosexual.¿ As for Morrissey, whether or not he's getting any right now, he¿ is and always has been a big old queen. Look at the man, it's¿ written ALL OVER HIS FACE (not to mention the lyrics, let's¿ start with "This Charming Man" and work up to¿ "Wide to Receive".) Those of you who are too naive,¿ young, or insecure to deal with this should spend a bit more¿ time living lives instead of trying to find hidden meanings in¿ "Dagenham Dave."¿ Morrissey has never denied being gay; this would be ridiculous¿ and laughable, at best. But he'd rather not be a spokesperson¿ for the lads in Old Compton, Chelsea or the Castro,¿ understandably. I think this is unfortunate since there is a sea¿ of lonely boys and girls out there who could do with the bit of¿ encouragement that would be provided by knowing that there is¿ more to the gay world than Erasure and "Will and¿ Grace."
yes there is much more to the gay world that those things...
evil tired nazi queens like you dear.
and I for one sometimes wish I was straight...life would be soooo much easier! so quit knocking everyone down. It's not "unfortunate" to be straight- it's just common and lucky, frankly I'm embarassed to say that I'm in the same (gay)"community" as you. That's why I don't really converse with my neighbors. You're all the same. Ugly!

[boyleastlikelytoo(kakarot)]

i do believe you are mistaken...I have worked last year in a clthing company store where probably a 3rd of then men were gay....and now I have worked full tie for the last 6 months with a gay man who is my boss........so please, I am much to intelligent to think that all gay men are the same...

kakarot

[Jamie]

> I suppose that many people would think that. However, I never¿ once gave you my interpretation of the aforementioned song. I¿ simply referred to it because it was the only one off that¿ dreadful last record with a memorable title. And like it or not,¿ there is certainly something implied by a title like "Wide¿ to Receive."

Yes, such as catching a pass in football or rugby. Amongst other things. Of course, Morrissey takes it to a much more meaningful, metaphoric level.

I should point out that this was printed in¿ large letters across the asses of many recent tour t-shirts.¿ What do you think he meant by that?

Much as he's done since 1983, he's allowing his penchant for camp and tongue-in-cheek to be perceived a number of ways by a legion of fans. You saw it one way, I saw it another. Neither of us took it literally.¿ I'm sure that alot of half-wits think alot of things about¿ Morrissey songs, but I wouldn't limit them to the provinces.

Nor would I, just a turn of phrase.

[Aunt Ida]

, Mike ENJOYS being a big ole queen! Love the blue glittery¿ eye shadow, BTW! ; )

Queer old Morrissey used to like being a big queen, too...with HIS eyeshadow, ladies blouses, flowers, Oscar Wilde, hanging with Pete Burns & other old eccentric women, and being completely hung-up on Johnny Marr. Only when he discovered his oh-so-manly solo band did he try (completely unsucessfully) to take on a more "masculine" image. The poor thing just wants to be one of the boys, huh? This is also around the time when his records began to be increasingly dull and uninspired...connection?


What the world needs now is love, sweet love... (http://www.rotten.com)
http://home.earthlink.net/~rbmann/images/till07.jpg

[Miss Krystal]

Re: Wide to Receive¿ Yes, such as catching a pass in football or rugby. Amongst other¿ things. Of course, Morrissey takes it to a much more meaningful,¿ metaphoric level.

Of course, I'm completely in the wrong. "Wide to Receive" must be about football or rugby - athletics being one of Morrissey's favorite subjects. Something he sings about incessantly. How could I have forgotten about "A Rush and A Push and the Ball is Ours" or "Everyday is like Superbowl Sunday"?

And those t-shirts with "Wide to Receive" emblazoned across the ass must have been designed for the herds of Morrissey fans who, when they're not busily researching the Moors Murders or crawling around the late Victorian stacks in the library, enjoy the hearty, violent, bloodshed of a good bollock-grabbing knockabout on the rugby pitch. If you're ever in New York, please drop by and we'll have a go. You'll have to bring the football (Rugbyball? Would one of you kind big butch athletic types PLEASE help me out here?), though; I'm not one of the multitude of Morrissey fans who go in for sport. (Come to think of it, I'm not really a Morrissey fan at all!) I even promise to remove my stilettos.¿ Much as he's done since 1983, he's allowing his penchant for¿ camp and tongue-in-cheek to be perceived a number of ways by a¿ legion of fans. You saw it one way, I saw it another. Neither of¿ us took it literally.

No, I think I did take it literally. Alas, perhaps we're both wrong. Morrissey may be fooling us both with his CAMP, but never with his sexuality.

[Lifeguard Sleeping]

> Queer old Morrissey used to like being a big queen, too...with¿ HIS eyeshadow, ladies blouses, flowers, Oscar Wilde, hanging¿ with Pete Burns & other old eccentric women, and being¿ completely hung-up on Johnny Marr.

OK, point taken about the various "gay culture" touches, but he WAS NOT, and IS NOT a "queen." Get your stereotypes straight, OK?¿ Only when he discovered his oh-so-manly solo band did he try >(completely unsucessfully) to take on a more "masculine" image. >The poor thing just wants to be one of the boys, huh? This is also >around the time when his records began to be increasingly dull and¿ uninspired...connection?

Assuming his new "masculine" image (whatever that means) you're referring to was around the time that "Your Arsenal" came out, then NO, his records weren't becoming increasingly dull - they became BETTER, probably his best to date.

This is pointless - we're arguing about Morrissey's sexuality via his many different "images." This is the bain of all Morrissey fans, and I fold.

[Jamie]

> (Come to¿ think of it, I'm not really a Morrissey fan at all!)

Then what the hell are you here for, mucking about with the people who ARE?

Sorry, ta, but no--I'm not going to take the bait anymore.

As Morrissey sang once, I have no space and time in my life for revenge.

Jamie