"Revelations" bootleg origins ?

[123xyz]

Was too lazy/drunk to look all through previous threads (sorry, Kewpie), but does anyone know how the Smiths demo bootleg " Unreleased Demos and Instrumentals " emerged ? Is it true that those tracks were assembled during the "Sounds Of the Smiths" period and were set for release as a bonus disc before Someone disapproved ( because of a royalty stream issue ) ? Were these tracks a lovely free gift to us from Moz/Marr ? Did they/could they have tracked the leaker and sued ( as Morrissey threatened when Joyce played snippets of the mis-named "Click Track" on radio ) ?

Would genuinely love to hear some more theories/rumours/etc from others...

[mcrickson]

Do you mean the bootleg "Unreleased Demos & Instrumentals"? Because "Revelations" is a solo material bootleg, wouldn't have anything to do with "The Sound of the Smiths." Somehow I doubt the "Unreleased..." was slated to be a bonus disc to "The Sound of the Smiths," only because I can't foresee it ever being something Moz/Marr would be okay with as an official release. They prefer to show the Smiths at their best.

[123xyz]

Do you mean the bootleg "Unreleased Demos & Instrumentals"? Because "Revelations" is a solo material bootleg, wouldn't have anything to do with "The Sound of the Smiths." Somehow I doubt the "Unreleased..." was slated to be a bonus disc to "The Sound of the Smiths," only because I can't foresee it ever being something Moz/Marr would be okay with as an official release. They prefer to show the Smiths at their best.



Thanks, mcrickson, that actually is exactly what I meant ( frankly, I blame the cut-price throw-down lager that is Budweiser).

I wondered about the bonus disc theory for no good reason, perhaps, other than my own aesthetic hair-splitting. The "Strangeways" tracks were not only uber-quality but, I think, superior to what appeared on the proper album.



Am now editing previous post...

[Southport Grandma]

Frank Arkwright, November 2010: We sourced all the original master tapes and picked out the right mixes from 4 huge flight cases. It was like an Aladdin's cave full of gems and very exciting.

Johnny Marr, November 2010: The versions of the songs that were played just the four of us putting the tracks down are really good, the stripped down versions, some of those things are great. Maybe they'll see the light of day at some point. I don't know though.

Johnny Marr May 2012: I would’ve liked to, but the label’s got some kind of legal issue there that I never want to talk about, so that’s unfortunate. There are monitor mixes and instrumental versions and slightly different versions of songs. When I said that nothing ended up on the cutting-room floor and nothing ever didn’t come out, I meant songs. There aren’t any songs that didn’t come out. There were versions of the songs, though, where I put keyboards on it, or before some strings went on, or extra guitars. I went through everything, and there were a lot of nice things, like unplugged kinds of things, that are valid and do have integrity and that I would like, at some point, to see the light of day. I think they’ve come out on some bootlegs over the last few years, and fans really like them and they’re good. But I can’t say why they won’t go out.

Unreleased was probably sourced from someone at EMI or Rhino.

[123xyz]

Frank Arkwright, November 2010: We sourced all the original master tapes and picked out the right mixes from 4 huge flight cases. It was like an Aladdin's cave full of gems and very exciting.

Johnny Marr, November 2010: The versions of the songs that were played just the four of us putting the tracks down are really good, the stripped down versions, some of those things are great. Maybe they'll see the light of day at some point. I don't know though.



Johnny Marr May 2012: I would’ve liked to, but the label’s got some kind of legal issue there that I never want to talk about, so that’s unfortunate. There are monitor mixes and instrumental versions and slightly different versions of songs. When I said that nothing ended up on the cutting-room floor and nothing ever didn’t come out, I meant songs. There aren’t any songs that didn’t come out. There were versions of the songs, though, where I put keyboards on it, or before some strings went on, or extra guitars. I went through everything, and there were a lot of nice things, like unplugged kinds of things, that are valid and do have integrity and that I would like, at some point, to see the light of day. I think they’ve come out on some bootlegs over the last few years, and fans really like them and they’re good. But I can’t say why they won’t go out.

Unreleased was probably sourced from someone at EMI or Rhino.



Appreciate your chasing down the relevant quotes. When Marr says "... But I can't say why they won't go out..." , I wonder, again, if that isn't a reference to we know who ?

[Anonymous]

Thanks, mcrickson, that actually is exactly what I meant ( frankly, I blame the cut-price throw-down lager that is Budweiser).

I wondered about the bonus disc theory for no good reason, perhaps, other than my own aesthetic hair-splitting. The "Strangeways" tracks were not only uber-quality but, I think, superior to what appeared on the proper album.



Am now editing previous post...

While we are on the subject, why not discuss the source of the Revelations bootleg? Or was that already discussed elsewhere?

[Anonymous]

While we are on the subject, why not discuss the source of the Revelations bootleg? Or was that already discussed elsewhere?

are these bootlegs available on CD?

[123xyz]

While we are on the subject, why not discuss the source of the Revelations bootleg? Or was that already discussed elsewhere?



If I had to guess, I suspect the "Revelations" tracks might have broken out while being contemplated for inclusion on the "Viva Hate" anniversary edition. Don't know/can't remember enough to be sure whether or not these were ultimately left off due to yet another royalty stream hoo-ha (e.g with Street ).

I'm still wondering if there wasn't a nod and a wink from Moz concerning the bootlegging. Did he and his management attempt to pursue the leaker ? Would such a thing be legally worth bothering with ?

As ever, the mystery thickens..

[Lionel]

I think both the demos lp and the revelations lp were made by the same person

[DAVIE]

When I said that nothing ended up on the cutting-room floor and nothing ever didn’t come out, I meant songs. There aren’t any songs that didn’t come out.

Marr is wrong though. There were the instrumentals that had never been released before.

[DavidA]

does anyone know how the Smiths demo bootleg " Unreleased Demos and Instrumentals " emerged ?

Stephane, who knows so much about these things, said this (http://www.morrissey-solo.com/threads/112376-The-Smiths-Unreleased-Demos-amp-Instrumentals-Bootleg-Vinyl-Rip/page3).


Warner Strategic Marketing considered releasing a limited edition 2-cd set of "The Very Best Of The Smiths" in 2001. The seven tracks from the second disc were sent to various people involved in the project. All seven are on this bootleg:

Reel Around The Fountain (final Troy Tate album version)
The Hand That Rocks The Cradle (John Porter monitor mix)
This Night Has Opened My Eyes (studio version June 84)
Rusholme Ruffians (Electric version July 84)
Frankly Mr Shankly (Trumpet version november 85)
Is It Really So Strange (June 86 'single' version)
Paint A Vulgar Picture (monitor mix March 87)

A compilation of outtakes from the sessions for "The Queen Is Dead" was at some point sent to record company people for some sort of anniversary reissue of the album (25th I think). From this 18 track compilation, two songs made it on this bootleg:

The Queen Is Dead (full version)
There Is A Light That Never Goes Out (take 1)
(plus of course Frankly which I've already mentioned above)

The rest are various demos.

Untitled 1 is called "I Misses You"
Untitled 2 is called "Heavy Track"
Both here are excerpts. The full versions are longer than that.

"Sheila Take A Bow" is the Porter version from January 1987
"Ask" is the pre-remix version

The rest are monitor mixes/demos for Strangeways.

This means that the makers of this bootleg have lots more in store that they could leak on more bootlegs. I hope this will push Warner to finally put out some sort of box set or the album reissues with unreleased material. Otherwise bootleggers will be making more compilations like these and eventually cut all the profits that the labels could be making.

And also (http://www.smithstorrents.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3135&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=37).


Warner has been trying to convince Morrissey and Marr to release that sort of stuff for years, but it's never convenient for one or the other. The reason why this hasn't been released yet is Morrissey and Marr.

Thanks for that May 2012 quote, Southport. I hadn't read that before.

[123xyz]

Stephane, who knows so much about these things, said this (http://www.morrissey-solo.com/threads/112376-The-Smiths-Unreleased-Demos-amp-Instrumentals-Bootleg-Vinyl-Rip/page3).



And also (http://www.smithstorrents.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3135&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=37).



Thanks for that May 2012 quote, Southport. I hadn't read that before.




So that means the bootlegger/s may have sitting on that nest of goodies for close to ten years (!) before they emerged , blinking and stumble-footed, into daylight.

I wonder why ? In the hope of avoiding legal pursuit by covering their tracks with the passing of time ?

Have other bands, when confronted with the bootlegging of unreleased material replied in this way i.e. by doing nothing ?

DavidA , thanks for posting Stephane's comments...

[Anonymous Bosch]

So that means the bootlegger/s may have sitting on that nest of goodies for close to ten years (!) before they emerged , blinking and stumble-footed, into daylight.

I wonder why ? In the hope of avoiding legal pursuit by covering their tracks with the passing of time ?

More likely they $aw how much more popular Morri$$ey wa$ a year or two ago than 10 year$ prior to that.

[Skylarker]

At any rate, regardless of leak sources, both Revelations and Demos And Instrumentals are the best things this forum has received since You Are The Quarry.

And if I recall correctly, both vinyl boots were presented here via Motorways.

[123xyz]

At any rate, regardless of leak sources, both Revelations and Demos And Instrumentals are the best things this forum has received since You Are The Quarry.

And if I recall correctly, both vinyl boots were presented here via Motorways.




We have been lucky here, over the years, with leaked official material - going all the way back to the Michael Legge/"Striptease" release. So much so, really, that the posting of "Kit" a few months ago didn't seem to attract too much attention ( although that may be also attributable to the merely average quality of the song itself).


Did anyone ever hear how "Motorways" came by the material ?




... so "Motorways" came by it via the "Everything English" website/seller ?

[DavidA]

You know, I really should make more of an effort to find out where these came from and whether more can make their way into the public domain. I didn't buy the bootleg, so I don't have the label. Does anyone else?

I seem to recall that it came at a time when a number of vinyl bootlegs were released, although the others were far less interesting. Were they all from the same company? Perhaps Motorways just happened to rip them at a similar time. This thread (http://www.morrissey-solo.com/threads/109887-Bootleg-Vinyl-Rips) springs to mind, plus The Old Guard BBC sessions.

It's peculiar that the bootleg is actually a selective compilation of recordings circulating the record industry. As you say, why wait 10 years? Why only release some? I can't think that it's particularly financially motivated because surely they wouldn't have sold more than a few hundred.

Any detective want to weigh in on where they came from?

[Lionel]

Is "Motorways" the original seller of these bootlegs or is this just somebody who bought them and shared?
Maybe they bought the LPs directly from the source?

[Dave2006]

Is "Motorways" the original seller of these bootlegs or is this just somebody who bought them and shared?
Maybe they bought the LPs directly from the source?

From memory Motorways bought the vinyl and did a bloody good job of recording and sharing it. Good work fella.

Dave

[mikael]

Who are these "Motorways" and are there more of these tracks?

[123xyz]

As I mentioned above , after having a hunt through some old threads, I loosely assume that "Motorways" acquired it from the "Everything English" website. That site still lists copies of some Smiths vinyl bootlegs for sale ( but not "Unreleased Demos & Instrumentals") such as the "Old Guard BBC " album DavidA mentions.