Word: Weller or Morrissey?

[goinghome]

Join the slugging-match here! - http://www.wordmagazine.co.uk/content/i-paul-weller-i-morrissey-but-which-ones-best

"I like Paul Weller. I like Morrissey. But which one's best?

There's only one way to find out, an in depth debate on The Word Blog. My iPod has been on shuffle for the last few days while I have been seemingly endlessly decorating and I have heard more Jam / Style Council / Weller and Smiths / Morrisey than anything else, yes even more than THEM. Anyway it struck me how despite being two very different characters just how similar their career paths have been, successful band followed by long solo career which have both split opinion. Also despite the huge offers it appears there is no chance of either reforming their original bands. Probably because I've inhaled too many paint fumes I thought I would throw it out to you good people for discussion. I think I favour Weller but only just."

[Kewpie]

We have Worm who is a polemic genius, so Morrissey wins! :D

[murder and desire]

Join the slugging-match here! - http://www.wordmagazine.co.uk/content/i-paul-weller-i-morrissey-but-which-ones-best

"I like Paul Weller. I like Morrissey. But which one's best?

There's only one way to find out, an in depth debate on The Word Blog. My iPod has been on shuffle for the last few days while I have been seemingly endlessly decorating and I have heard more Jam / Style Council / Weller and Smiths / Morrisey than anything else, yes even more than THEM. Anyway it struck me how despite being two very different characters just how similar their career paths have been, successful band followed by long solo career which have both split opinion. Also despite the huge offers it appears there is no chance of either reforming their original bands. Probably because I've inhaled too many paint fumes I thought I would throw it out to you good people for discussion. I think I favour Weller but only just."

I also like both they are both singers in two of my fave bands. Although, I would have to say I would back Morrissey, with out doubt
I like Weller but he is too hung up on the whole Mod thing and I find his solo stuff patchy and limited.
I also, find his blokey approach to life narrow, the fact he has only just gotten in Bowie in the last 4 years speaks volumes.
I do think Moz owes Weller a debt though, he defiantly got some ideas for the Smiths from the Jam (I would guess).

In a way I think Weller and Morrissey are quite like minded. Although, I would suggest Morrissey and Ray Davis are the most like minded- Of course Davis would back Weller in this debate- I expect.

[Qvist]

I think the question is absurd. Weller is essentially a pamphleteer, and Jam and Style Council fan though I be, I do not consider him even remotely in the same class as Morrissey as a lyricist. In fact, I think his lyrics frequently require more than a little patience and tolerance in order to escape ridicule.

cheers

[Qvist]

In a way I think Weller and Morrissey are quite like minded. Although, I would suggest Morrissey and Ray Davis are the most like minded- Of course Davis would back Weller in this debate- I expect.

I disagree. I see them as essentially contradictory spirits, and cannot imagine them getting along well.

cheers

[murder and desire]

I think the question is absurd. Weller is essentially a pamphleteer, and Jam and Style Council fan though I be, I do not consider him even remotely in the same class as Morrissey as a lyricist. In fact, I think his lyrics frequently require more than a little patience and tolerance in order to escape ridicule.

cheers

Hmm, I think Weller is more "meat and potato's" in his thinking and writing than Moz and not as poetic
But in The Jam he wrote some fantastic words.
Just listen to Down in The Tube Station At Midnight, Dreams of Children and Town Called malice for three.
Of course it's Morrisseys singing that really transports Morrissey to a different league.

[murder and desire]

I disagree. I see them as essentially contradictory spirits, and cannot imagine them getting along well.

cheers

They wouldn't get on but that just shows why they are alike, not that they are different- they both don't get along with many people.
I mean they are alike in terms of spirt not habits or day to day rituals.
As I say, I think Morrissey, out of all the pop people is most like Ray Davis- they also fell out- Ray seems to fall out with everyone as well.

This is the incorrect place for such a topic (I think) as I would be surprised if anyone on here backs Weller, what with it being a Morrissey fan site.

[mywar]

Oh, I don't know about that. Quite a few people on here seem to hate Morrissey with a passion.

[Kewpie]

Oh, I don't know about that. Quite a few people on here seem to hate Morrissey with a passion.

Which users hate Morrissey with a passion? :confused:

[Raphael Lambach]

Weller and Morrissey are important musicians/singers for each generation and they had made their history on world musical scene but Morrissey is better, IMO.

[joe frady]

Morrissey. Big surprise.
Simply put ~ the voice. I just cannot even begin to imagine that anyone out there listens to any Weller song he's ever sung and really feels....transported. They might think good tune, nice chords, rockin' performance, interesting words, sometimes; but that voice is so relentlessly pedestrian and earth-bound.
I've never really understood Morrissey's occasional proffers of comradeship toward Weller over the years; proffers which have been repeatedly and ungraciously rebuffed by Weller. Oh well, that's lads for you. Or dads for you.

[PregnantForTheLastTime]

Morrissey's voice is otherworldly. Weller is handicapped by ordinariness; Morrissey was/is blessed with unholy good looks and one of the strangest, most beautiful voices we have ever heard. He transcends place, class, and time in a way that Weller never did.

[Worm]

We have Worm who is a polemic genius, so Morrissey wins! :D

Haha, you're too kind Kewpie. The ability to annoy the competition into total exhaustion isn't genius. :rolleyes:

I love Paul Weller's music but I have no doubt Morrissey is superior. The biggest difference between them is that Weller is a craftsman, almost a journeyman songwriter, and Morrissey's a guy who came out of nowhere and put things on vinyl no amount of "craft" or "preparation" or "methodology" could have produced. Morrissey has genius in the primary sense of the word, meaning he makes art as if he has a mysterious spirit whispering in his ear. Weller, on the other hand, fixed his music within the coordinates of a few existing traditions (soul/R & B and British bands like The Who and especially The Kinks) and labored and labored to put his stamp on it. Weren't The Jam called "the hardest working band in London" at one point? It showed, in good ways and bad.

I think the one symmetry between the two, their rise to fame with bands that subsequently exploded, is actually the most telling contrast: half of The Jam's catalog is forgettable, while the only less-than-stellar, unmemorable material The Smiths released was a couple of covers and instrumentals, all safely tucked away on B-sides.

Anyway, this is really a comparison of two great songwriters. There shouldn't be a slugging match involved, as there rightfully should be if Morrissey were pitted against the lipsticked cheese-dirigible in the hockey shirts.

[CrystalGeezer]

^^ Worm is pretty damn smart.

[Worm]

^^ Worm is pretty damn smart.

What if I'd argued for Weller? :rolleyes:

[CrystalGeezer]

What if I'd argued for Weller? :rolleyes:

You wouldn't have drawn the ridiculously apt conclusion that Morrissey was thrown into songwriting and mastered it while Weller labors over his craft and your conclusion wouldn't be damn smart. :p

[Happy Maudlin]

Of course I think Morrissey is better than Weller. I heard some of Weller's work from the Jam and the Style Council, but I think PregnantForTheLastTime hit the nail on the head and his music seems pedestrian compared to Morrissey's.

[lottie]

Morrissey's voice is otherworldly. Weller is handicapped by ordinariness; Morrissey was/is blessed with unholy good looks and one of the strangest, most beautiful voices we have ever heard. He transcends place, class, and time in a way that Weller never did.

THIS :cool:

[Anaesthesine]

Paul Weller is edifying, but Morrissey is intoxicating.

[billy scissors]

Morrissey's voice is otherworldly. Weller is handicapped by ordinariness; Morrissey was/is blessed with unholy good looks and one of the strangest, most beautiful voices we have ever heard. He transcends place, class, and time in a way that Weller never did.

I disagree on one point,Weller was far better looking in his day.Now hes just orange,with daft hair

[Gregor Samsa]

Weller is really, really great. At least in The Jam (one of the best bands of all time, yet inferior to The Smiths, The Cure, Joy Division...). But Moz... Moz is an all mighty genius who can speak to me and my heart better than anything or anyone, ever.

[Maurice E]

worth noting that P Weller is a genuine solo artist, he writes words, he writes music, he sings and he plays instruments.
Morrissey is just a singer and lyric writer, so Weller is a massively more gifted all-round songwriter.
Weller's recent albums have arguably been the best received (critically) of his 30 year career even recently attracting a Mercury nomination which is almost unheard of for an act which is neither new nor novel. few people dispute that Morrissey's best work is from over at least 15 years ago. Weller is also much more more prolific and sells more albums, so is better on that count too.
however, many of Weller's lyrics (particularly from the solo years) are simply a string of cliché-ridden platitudes, his singing voice is increasingly unattractive (gruff and unsubtle), and he sings in a ridiculous fake accent (I'm from a town just 5 miles from where Weller grew up).
so, as an all-round genuine solo artist, P Weller knocks spots off S Morrissey. but in terms of singing and lyric writing, he doesn't come anywhere near.

[Johnny]

I Love them both but there are some pretty misguided points raised about Weller.

Firstly The Jam were ao far ahead of The Cure they should never be compared.

Weller is also a much better lyricist than he is given credit for and his lyrics have improved over the years whilst the quality of Morrissey's lyrics have decreased.

It's also worthwhile noting that when Weller was banging out The Jam's masterpiece album Sound Affects he was only 22 and had already released the fantastic All Mod Cons and Setting Sons.

They would hate each other but have so much in commom it's scary.

[Orson Swells]

Weller is also a much better lyricist than he is given credit for and his lyrics have improved over the years whilst the quality of Morrissey's lyrics have decreased.

I find quite the reverse!

I love the best of the Jam, but none of his recent songs as a solo artist say anything to me. Morrissey, on the hand, I just find more and more interesting, to the point where I far prefer him solo.

In terms of voice, image and the aesthetic behind it all, Morrissey is light years ahead. But Weller at his best was a fine, fine song writer, no doubt about it

[murder and desire]

Morrissey's voice is otherworldly. Weller is handicapped by ordinariness; Morrissey was/is blessed with unholy good looks and one of the strangest, most beautiful voices we have ever heard. He transcends place, class, and time in a way that Weller never did.

Basically, Morrissey has the celtic edge.

[murder and desire]

worth noting that P Weller is a genuine solo artist, he writes words, he writes music, he sings and he plays instruments.
Morrissey is just a singer and lyric writer, so Weller is a massively more gifted all-round songwriter.
Weller's recent albums have arguably been the best received (critically) of his 30 year career even recently attracting a Mercury nomination which is almost unheard of for an act which is neither new nor novel. few people dispute that Morrissey's best work is from over at least 15 years ago. Weller is also much more more prolific and sells more albums, so is better on that count too.
however, many of Weller's lyrics (particularly from the solo years) are simply a string of cliché-ridden platitudes, his singing voice is increasingly unattractive (gruff and unsubtle), and he sings in a ridiculous fake accent (I'm from a town just 5 miles from where Weller grew up).
so, as an all-round genuine solo artist, P Weller knocks spots off S Morrissey. but in terms of singing and lyric writing, he doesn't come anywhere near.

I agree, in fact I said as much but lets not pretend Morrisseys solo out put lately is any great shakes.
The main thing that saves it is the singing and the phrasing (people often over look Morrisseys genuis for phrasing) BUT the words well.......some of Morrisseys words are childish and silly, these days.


Still Morrissey wins, in my mind

[murder and desire]

I Love them both but there are some pretty misguided points raised about Weller.

Firstly The Jam were ao far ahead of The Cure they should never be compared.

Weller is also a much better lyricist than he is given credit for and his lyrics have improved over the years whilst the quality of Morrissey's lyrics have decreased.

It's also worthwhile noting that when Weller was banging out The Jam's masterpiece album Sound Affects he was only 22 and had already released the fantastic All Mod Cons and Setting Sons.

They would hate each other but have so much in commom it's scary.

Bravo,
no one takes the Cure seriously, they didn't when they were around and they don't now.
The Cure are just poster boys for American style angst, which is why they did so well out there, them and Simple Minds and D Mode.
I like some of the Cure's songs but really they were no where near as good as The Smiths or The Jam or Joy Division- who's base line they stole- or Echo and The Bunnymen for that matter.


I saw Robert Smith in Camden once (it's where I spot most of the famous),
he looked so pathetic in his fat body and lipstick, at his age!

[Gregor Samsa]

Bravo,
no one takes the Cure seriously, they didn't when they were around and they don't now.
The Cure are just poster boys for American style angst, which is why they did so well out there, them and Simple Minds and D Mode.
I like some of the Cure's songs but really they were no where near as good as The Smiths or The Jam or Joy Division- who base line they stole- or Echo and The Bunnymen for that matter.


I saw Robert Smith in Camden once (it's where I spot most of the famous),
he looked so pathetic in his fat body and lipstick, at his age!

This is bullshit. His fat body? Lipstick? Haven't you got anything even remotely relevant to say?

Robert Smith has written some fantastic records like Seventeen Seconds, Faith, Pornography, Disintegration, Bloodflowers et al. Records with real emotion, real beauty, amazing poetic lyrics. No, they are nowhere near Morrissey, but who is? But let's not question the simple fact that The Cure is one hell of a band.

[murder and desire]

This is bullshit. His fat body? Lipstick? Haven't you got anything even remotely relevant to say?

Robert Smith has written some fantastic records like Seventeen Seconds, Faith, Pornography, Disintegration, Bloodflowers et al. Records with real emotion, real beauty, amazing poetic lyrics. No, they are nowhere near Morrissey, but who is? But let's not question the simple fact that The Cure is one hell of a band.

Being overly fat and still wearing bad lipstick, is relevant- its about taste dear.
I said I liked some of their songs, did I not? For me they lacked the power of the other bands I mentioned.
It was too "fantasy land" for me, the music was mainly for middle class kids stuck in the sticks. The kind of people who have wet dreams about the hobbit and comics (the ones one reads, not the stand up ones).
You can hear a lot of the cure in early radiohead, of course the radiohead boys are much better than the cure and have progressed.

[Gregor Samsa]

Being overly fat and still wearing bad lipstick, is relevant- its about taste dear.
I said I liked some of their songs, did I not? For me they lacked the power of the other bands I mentioned.
It was too "fantasy land" for me, the music was mainly for middle class kids stuck in the sticks. The kind of people who have wet dreams about the hobbit and comics (the ones one reads, not the stand up ones).
You can hear a lot of the cure in early radiohead, of course the radiohead boys are much better than the cure and have progressed.

How one looks will not determine how one sounds. Dear.

Some of their songs. Let me guess, the hits?

Your statements about The Cure are terribly inept. Have you not read their lyrics? Hobbit, comics? Fantasy land?

And Radiohead is better? They have nothing to say. Just being weird for the sake of it.

Read this piece (you won't because you're so stuck in your ways).
http://www.songmeanings.net/songs/view/7509/

[murder and desire]

How one looks will not determine how one sounds. Dear.

Some of their songs. Let me guess, the hits?

Your statements about The Cure are terribly inept. Have you not read their lyrics? Hobbit, comics? Fantasy land?

And Radiohead is better? They have nothing to say. Just being weird for the sake of it.

Read this piece (you won't because you're so stuck in your ways).
http://www.songmeanings.net/songs/view/7509/

Radiohead are not one of my fave bands, by any stretch of an elastic imagination, but they have moved things forward (some what).
They are not trying to be "weird", they are just doing their own thing. If anyone is trying to be "weird" it's Robo Smurf- he has made a career out of it.
Nice to see you are one of the many, who can't help but give the first jab- "Let me, guess the hits".

I will not not jab back sweet but words of advice NEVER EVER use the word "weird", it's a lazy term used by people who don't understand something.

As for being stuck in my ways, this is true I am stuck like glue, through and through.

Just for you and the over played record, my Cure faves are -

Killing the Arab
Charlotte Sometimes
The Walk
Never enough
Fascination Street (from their mixed up lp)
The Caterpillar (yeap a Hit)

[Gregor Samsa]

Radiohead are not one of my fave bands, by any stretch of an elastic imagination, but they have moved things forward (some what).
They are not trying to be "weird", they are just doing their own thing. If anyone is trying to be "weird" it's Robo Smurf- he has made a career out of it.
Nice to see you are one of the many, who can't help but give the first jab- "Let me, guess the hits".

I will not not jab back sweet but words of advice NEVER EVER use the word "weird", it's a lazy term used by people who don't understand something.

As for being stuck in my ways, this is true I am stuck like glue, through and through.

Just for you and the over played record, my Cure faves are -

Killing the Arab
Charlotte Sometimes
The Walk
Never enough
Fascination Street (from their mixed up lp)
The Caterpillar (yeap a Hit)

You seem to have zero interest in keeping up a nice debate. Despite us talking about The Cure, you have yet to say one constructive thing about their music. And it's me not understanding things? I can't help but defy that.

Radiohead, doing their thing? It's irrelevant when they don't dare to say anything. Their lyrics are incoherent and the music's just sounds, landscapes of sound.

And your cure-faves? Although some of them are good songs (some aren't) they're all a-sides. Use your imagination a bit. Delve further. Albumtracks, b-sides.

[murder and desire]

You seem to have zero interest in keeping up a nice debate. Despite us talking about The Cure, you have yet to say one constructive thing about their music. And it's me not understanding things? I can't help but defy that.

Radiohead, doing their thing? It's irrelevant when they don't dare to say anything. Their lyrics are incoherent and the music's just sounds, landscapes of sound.

And your cure-faves? Although some of them are good songs (some aren't) they're all a-sides. Use your imagination a bit. Delve further. Albumtracks, b-sides.


Do you really think Robo has anything or had anything to say, really?
What has Robert had to say of interest in interviews or other wise?
People often put The Cure in with Joy Division and The Smiths, as if they were some goth 3some walking around town dressed in black.

The difference is massive The Smiths and J D have a gothic out look but their gothic is true gothic in a English victorian sense (as are Radiohead and Echo and the bunnymen). The Cure aren't really gothic except in a fashion sense, they are a fairy tale with a dark hue- they are better than the awful Smashing Ps though.
Also, Robert Smith is like a womble who got lost in a Alice Coopers dressing room, it's impossible to take him seriously- unless your an avid fan of twilight and Tim B Films
Music and taste are woven deep (this is what I was stating in one of the above posts), which is something Morrissey and Weller understood. This explains why they have moved forward and Robo has staid nailed to to floor in 1979.

If you like The Cure that's fine, we all like what we like BUT to make out The Cure are one of the greatest bands ever is madness.

Didn't you also say you were a Michael Jackson Fan as well and compare him to Moz?



PS one of my friends was a big big cure fan, so I have heard a number of
The Cures songs and they just don't do it for me, honey.
To say the songs I had chosen are "A sides" and "Hits" in a snotty manner is silly.
I started Something, The Queen is Dead, This Charming man,How soon is Now Suedehead, Ineresting Drug and what not are still some of my fave Smiths/moz songs.
Yes I like a load of b sides and lp tracks but there is nothing wrong with liking hits- it just shows lack of knowledge and experience if thats all you know.

You dismissed Weller in the one of your posts above I suggest you widen your knowledge of The Jam

While you are at it give The Specials a go (if you haven't already)

[Scarlet1987]

Do you really think Robo has anything or had anything to say, really?
What has Robert had to say of interest in interviews or other wise?
People often put The Cure in with Joy Division and The Smiths, as if they were some goth 3some walking around town dressed in black.

The difference is massive The Smiths and J D have a gothic out look but their gothic is true gothic in a English victorian sense (as are Radiohead and Echo and the bunnymen). The Cure aren't really gothic except in a fashion sense, they are a fairy tale with a dark hue- they are better than the awful Smashing Ps though.
Also, Robert Smith is like a womble who got lost in a Alice Coopers dressing room, it's impossible to take him seriously- unless your an avid fan of twilight and Tim B Films
Music and taste are woven deep (this is what I was stating in one of the above posts), which is something Morrissey and Weller understood. This explains why they have moved forward and Robo has staid nailed to to floor in 1979.

If you like The Cure that's fine, we all like what we like BUT to make out The Cure are one of the greatest bands ever is madness.

Didn't you also say you were a Michael Jackson Fan as well and compare him to Moz?



PS one of my friends was a big big cure fan, so I have heard a number of
The Cures songs and they just don't do it for me, honey.
To say the songs I had chosen are "A sides" and "Hits" in a snotty manner is silly.
I started Something, The Queen is Dead, This Charming man,How soon is Now Suedehead, Ineresting Drug and what not are still some of my fave Smiths/moz songs.
Yes I like a load of b sides and lp tracks but there is nothing wrong with liking hits- it just shows lack of knowledge and experience if thats all you know.

You dismissed Weller in the one of your posts above I suggest you widen your knowledge of The Jam

While you are at it give The Specials a go (if you haven't already)


A, you have a lot of time on your hands. The old winter syndrome is it?

[Kewpie]

This debate is on BBC London radio Danny Baker show this afternoon.

Any Lame is a huge Morrissey fan, Gary Crawley is on Weller's side.

Really hilarious to listen both fans phone-in on the radio.

Some people are telling their snippets about meeting Morrissey / Weller.

BBC London traffic news reporter Billy Reeves cleverly said that he loved Smiths (he said that Jam was for yobs!) when he's a teenager, but solo-wise he preferred Weller around 15:30.


You'll be able to listen again from iPlayer.

[lux girl]

A complete no-brainer for me as an Irish woman!
Weller says "nothing to me about my life"

[cossy]

[


You'll be able to listen again from iPlayer.[/QUOTE]



Thanks for the tip off . I listened to this last night and really enjoyed the various presenters and listening public making their choice of favourites.
I get the impression even though it was 50/50 Moz would have won this debate hands down on BBC Manchester but as Weller is a Londoner he got a lot more support

Well worth a listen
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p00fb46l/Danny_Baker_18_03_2011/

[Kewpie]

Thanks for the tip off . I listened to this last night and really enjoyed the various presenters and listening public making their choice of favourites.
I get the impression even though it was 50/50 Moz would have won this debate hands down on BBC Manchester but as Weller is a Londoner he got a lot more support

Well worth a listen
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p00fb46l/Danny_Baker_18_03_2011/

Really glad that you also enjoyed listening to the show. :)